Unproven?  

How many COVID deaths were people who would have died from almost any insult to their health (elderly, obese, other comorbidities)? Sooooo, we should just not count them because they were more succeptable to COVID? That doesn't make any sense...
    The point is that without proof of causality, those numbers are pointless. Do you know how many people have died within a week of eating green beans? Anything can be made to sound horrifying. I agree, numbers are pointless without a definition. However, we have a definition. COVID is a real thing. and it kills people. You can't seperate out those that might have survived without COVID from those that died because of COVID. Physiologically we have a pretty good understanding of what COVID does to the body and it's pretty safe to assume cause of death. Do I agree that all of those deaths were caused specifically by COVID? No, but it's just as hard to prove that they weren't.  


How many deaths were labeled as "COVID" when they died of a different cause but happened to have had COVID prior to death? It's not that simple now is it? How can you prove that COVID didn't exacerbate that prior problem they had. Can you prove that they might have survived had they not gotten COVID? (Completely understand there is the opposite argument to have here).
   You seem to understand my point, which is that simply spouting “numbers” is meaningless unless those numbers are attached to a clear and thorough definition. See my response above.

If the vaccine is effective, why are cases going up along with the vaccination rate? Because in our haste to "return to normal" and our outcry from people saying "I HAVE MUH RI'TE's" Not wearing masks and basically saying YOLO and F everyone else, and from people having the mindset that "Well, if everyone else is vaccinated, then why do I need it?" We have let our entire population down.
   You’re trying too hard to jam your bias into this. Cases are going up along with the vaccination rate because the vaccine is not effective. I think we’re learning that we can’t make a COVID vaccine any better than we can make the flu shot. If that’s the case, suppressing thera peutics to force compliance with the vaccine is literally killing people and prolonging the pandemic. You are equally making a fallacy and injecting bias by your own opinion saying that the vaccine is not effective. The fact that we are having variants of the virus that mutate to make our vaccines ineffective is due to our inability to agree that this is bad and that it requires effort on both sides to fight this.

If the vaccine is safe, why do the manufacturers continue to claim liability protection for adverse reactions? Is there proof out there that they actually are? Is there any court precident currently that they have been sued and won because of liability protection? (Fox news, CNN, Washington Post, OAN, etc... do not count as proof).
   It’s common knowledge. The sources you mention often provide their sources, as does CNBC here so you can check for yourself: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-vaccine-side-effects-compensation-lawsuit.html  That is an interesting article. I have to say though that it appears that the drug companies themselves are not asking for the immunity. It seems to me like they said they could do it, but would require the immunity to make it cheaper and faster. Therefore the government is who offered up the immunity. The mRNA vaccine technology has been around for decades (I can't find the exact paper I was reading with the first time mRNA was used) but it's been around for a long time. It has been looked at in the past for other vaccines and has undergone other human trials. The CDC is a little misleading in saying this is a "new" vaccine. It hasn't been looked at as a viable option until now due to the cost and equipment required to produce. But with the funding provided by the government the companies were able to actually produce fairly quickly. Therfore this isn't something new and never before seen and we are not human test subjects.

How many adverse reactions have not been reported? Why would you not report an adverse reaction? If you are really trying to prove that this was bad, and you were really trying to help people by warning them that the vaccine was bad, wouldn't you want to report it? Also, you the patient might not be required to report it, but if you show up to the hospital and seek treatment for an adverse reaction the Dr's, Nurses, and Hospital are required by law to report it, they can lose their licenses and jobs by not reporting. Even if it's not COVID related. Flu shot, Measles, Mumps, Hep, etc... all required by law to be reported.
   https://youtu.be/obdI7tgKLtA?t=450

Definitely NOT a reliable source! First paragraph from google: "Project Veritas is an American far-right activist group founded by James O'Keefe in 2010.  The group produces deceptively edited videosof its undercover operations,which use secret recordingsin an effort to discredit mainstream media organizations and progressive groups. Project Veritas also uses entrapmentto generate bad publicity for its targets,and has propagated disinformation and conspiracy theoriesin its videos and operations."

Why are proven thera peutics being suppressed? (I know it's one word, but apparently it also includes the word r*pe) Do you have proof that ACTUAL, real, tested treatments are being suppressed? (Again, major media sources do not count). I assure you that Dr. and Nurses are doing everything they possibly can with proven and safe methods to save your life. You really think they would suppress something if it saving your life? Remember that whole legal thing about losing your job and license? They can not treat you with off the wall non-proven methods. That's called assault.
If you haven’t noticed suppression and censorship of proponents for HQC, ivermectin, and other treatments that have been in use for a long time, you’re just out of touch. There is a reason Drs. are not using the drugs you mention. Ivermectin is an anti-parasite, (COVID is not a parasite). Hydroxychloroquine is an immunosuppresive, which has actually been tested on COVID and shows through real scientific trials that it does not have any effect on COVID. I assure you, I am not out of touch. 

Why are vaccine skeptics (including doctors and scientists) being censored? Proof of LEGIT doctors being censored? Not the Podiatrist from across the street. But legit virologist, or epidemiologist?
   You want proof of things that can’t be seen anymore? That’s the whole point of the censorship. If someone counters the chosen narrative, they can be shut down because, “you’re wrong, no one is saying that.” That is a 2-way street, maybe those people are being censored because it is false information?

Lots of credibility problems with the whole situation. If this vaccine were clearly a good thing, no mandates, pressures in the form of restricted freedoms, or threats to employment would be necessary. If this was handled appropriately from the very beginning from ALL sides then there shouldn't have been this trust situation. But now that it's out there, how do you get people to do the right thing for the greater good of the American population without forcing them? Do we just let people die because "I HAVE MUH RI'TE's?" Should we just allow the people to not get the vaccine and then allow those same people to take up a hospital bed from a person that didn't have COVID and ultimately might have survived had they been able to get that bed instead? Actions have consequences, and so does no action, which is the right one?
   You don’t get to force people to “do the right thing.” Fascist/communist approaches don’t work with everyone. Not everyone is persuaded through fear mongering. Honesty and transparency go a long way. You want honesty and transparency however you are not willing to listen to the honesty and transparency because it doesn't align with your chosen narrative.

Pharmaceutical companies who are profiting wildly off this pandemic should be open to liability for any adverse reactions their product causes. Something we agree on.

Denying those who don’t take the vaccine medical treatment, employment, freedom to conduct business, freedom to travel, and so forth is unconstitutional and is dividing our country. Never once has any hospital denied medical treatment to someone for not being vaccinated without getting in trouble for it. Those companies have every right to deny someone from working there without the vaccine, It's called freedom. A business has every right to tell someone they can't shop there, don't like it? shop somewhere else? That's freedom. The airlines have every right to deny someone from boarding because they are not vaccinated, don't like it? Choose another airline. Oh, yes there is that freedom again. Wouldn't it also be unconstitutional to say those business' must conduct their business in a way the government chooses? Isn't your argument the very definition of hypocritical?

It is exactly the authoritarianism the left ridiculously accused Trump of being. I always just thought Trump was a man child that couldn't even spell authority, much less know how to use it. (P.S. I don't like Biden either )

It is exactly the opposite of what our country was founded as. But is it though? Our country was founded on being hypocritical?

The science on COVID and the vaccine is hardly settled. Science is never “settled.” Nor has the cause of this pandemic been appropriately accounted for. Yaaay! Again something we agree on.

Everyone’s situation is different, which is why in America, everyone is free to make the decision that is best for him or her. Agree, but remember that applies both ways. Just because you are free to make a decision, doesn't mean that decision doesn't come with consequences. I.e. being denied boarding an airline.

It’s communist nations where the government uses various levers of power to force its decisions on everyone. I don't think you fully understand the meaning or values of communism. Can you even name the only 5 countries in the world that are ACTUALLY communist countries? (Don't cheat)