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Msg ID: 2835219 Looking for HAA accidents that occured using Part 91 when pilot exceeded +0/-0     
Author:the 14 hrs of duty.
11/24/2024 11:37:36 AM

Know of some that occurred Part 91, but not after 14 hr duty period was exceeded.   

Thanks



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Msg ID: 2835221 Or, any Part 135 accident that pilot was on Part 91 leg after 14hrs of duty (NT) +0/-0     
Author:Either will do.
11/24/2024 11:50:40 AM

Reply to: 2835219


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Msg ID: 2835223 If you can plan within 14 hours, shut up and fly. There, saved (NT) +0/-3     
Author:You some work
11/24/2024 12:21:21 PM

Reply to: 2835221


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Msg ID: 2835225 If you can plan within 14 hours, shut up and fly. There, saved +0/-0     
Author:say wut
11/24/2024 12:38:41 PM

Reply to: 2835223

wut you talking about bro



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Msg ID: 2835226 Wasn't the question! Do you know of an accidents where duty was more than (NT) +0/-0     
Author:14 hrs ?? Any examples??
11/24/2024 12:39:56 PM

Reply to: 2835223


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Msg ID: 2835228 Wasn't the question! Do you know of an accidents where duty was more than +0/-1     
Author:yes
11/24/2024 1:27:54 PM

Reply to: 2835226

one time I was so tired that I punched the nurse in the throat but it was an accident



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Msg ID: 2835230 Looking for HAA accidents that occured using Part 91 when pilot exceeded +0/-1     
Author:Occured during what?
11/24/2024 1:34:56 PM

Reply to: 2835219

You're not going to find an example because that's not a thing that exists. You just get an extension. You can't just yell Part 91 like it's a get out of jail free card.



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Msg ID: 2835231 So, were they any accidents that occured in the after the 14th hr of duty +0/-0     
Author:in Part 135 or 91?
11/24/2024 2:04:30 PM

Reply to: 2835230

Like on a Part 91 tail-end reposition flight that occurred after the 14hr Part 135 duty period elapsed?





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Msg ID: 2835233 So, were they any accidents that occured in the after the 14th hr of duty +0/-0     
Author:Again
11/24/2024 2:19:27 PM

Reply to: 2835231

Which minute of obligated flying does it suddenly stop being "duty?" When the FAA looks over the records and sees that you clocked in for 15 hours one day and 12 the next you're just gonna say "it's cool bro it was part 91?"



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Msg ID: 2835235 It is all duty, but you can be on duty Part 91 indefinitely. +0/-0     
Author:Are there any accidents where...
11/24/2024 2:38:32 PM

Reply to: 2835233

... a pilot was on duty past 14 hours under Part 91 after his Part 135 duty limitation was reached?


Simple question!



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Msg ID: 2835256 It is all duty, but you can be on duty Part 91 indefinitely. +0/-0     
Author:most companies
11/24/2024 8:16:19 PM

Reply to: 2835235

do not allow you to fly past 14 but amc sure does! 



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Msg ID: 2835257 It is all duty, but you can be on duty Part 91 indefinitely. +0/-0     
Author:Be that guy then
11/24/2024 8:20:26 PM

Reply to: 2835256

Be 15 and a half hours into your duty day and have an incident. The ASI will be happy to hear all about how AMC says it's totally legit man it was just a part 91 leg



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Msg ID: 2835258 It is all duty, but you can be on duty Part 91 indefinitely. +0/-0     
Author:no
11/24/2024 8:22:00 PM

Reply to: 2835257

it's not part 91. get that out of your head. it's all 135. crew often onboard



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Msg ID: 2835259 It is all duty, but you can be on duty Part 91 indefinitely. +0/-0     
Author:say wut
11/24/2024 8:24:52 PM

Reply to: 2835258

they don't let you go past 15 and who gives a sh*t what some faa guy thinks about it. it's already been approved



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Msg ID: 2835261 Part 91, tons of companies do it! Since time began... +0/-0     
Author:yet, no accidents can be cited??
11/24/2024 9:22:35 PM

Reply to: 2835256

Must not have been a problem in the first place!



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Msg ID: 2835276 Part 91, tons of companies do it! Since time began... +0/-0     
Author:If you want overtime take an extra shift
11/24/2024 11:24:25 PM

Reply to: 2835261

Do you want there to be less rest time or something? Go back to the military if you want r3tarded schedules.



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Msg ID: 2835282 It's not a "shift". It's simply exra duty time, and there isn't a limit (NT) +0/-0     
Author:under Part 91
11/25/2024 7:14:33 AM

Reply to: 2835276


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Msg ID: 2835236 You can plan to be on duty longer than 14 hrs for the Part 91 portion (NT) +0/-1     
Author:since it is Part 91!
11/24/2024 3:03:47 PM

Reply to: 2835233


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Msg ID: 2835232 Can you get an extension for a Part 135 flight beyond 14 hrs? (NT) +0/-0     
Author:Didn't think you legally do that!
11/24/2024 2:06:14 PM

Reply to: 2835230


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Msg ID: 2835277 Can you get an extension for a Part 135 flight beyond 14 hrs? +0/-0     
Author:Have you ever flown part 135?
11/24/2024 11:46:45 PM

Reply to: 2835232

Of course you can get an extension, unexpected circumstances happen. That's the purpose of additional rest times.



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Msg ID: 2835283 The only unexpected circumstances that can extend your duty are +0/-0     
Author:the ones that happen in flight.
11/25/2024 7:18:35 AM

Reply to: 2835277

If they happen before you fly, then they aren't unexpected circumstances.  They are bad planning!

Like planning based on average flight times.   Average flight times are planning to be late half the time!



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Msg ID: 2835237 Looking for HAA accidents that occured using Part 91 when pilot exceeded +1/-1     
Author:That Part 91
11/24/2024 3:51:41 PM

Reply to: 2835230

thing after 14 may or may not applicable depending on who the med crew works for.  If for the operator and no one else on board, maybe ok.  If the crew works for a hospital, and not the operator, then Pt 91 is not available.  The med crew remain innocent souls for hire in the eyes of the feds



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Msg ID: 2835240 FAA voluntary disclosure. +1/-0     
Author:Anonymous
11/24/2024 4:30:46 PM

Reply to: 2835219

Duty time is duty time, rest is rest, regardless of Part. Any exceedance or shortfall should be reported.

Overflying duty time was once very common in one company. The pilots got tired of it and collectively decided to self-report. The reports started stacking up and the FAA eventually got involved. Funny thing is that the management "prohibited" its pilots from self-reporting after they got spanked. "Clear it with us first." 

The FAA will hold the fiends you work for in higher contempt than you. The fiends you work for know that you need a paycheck and so does the FAA.



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Msg ID: 2835242 There is no exceedences for Part 91. You can't count it towards  +0/-0     
Author:as required rest prior to next 135 flt
11/24/2024 4:42:08 PM

Reply to: 2835240
but there would be no excellence to report. You can be on duty for days straight, just not able to PIC a Part 135 flight until you get 10hr of rest. So, are there any accidents where a pilot was flying past 14 hours of duty either under Part 91 or 135?


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Msg ID: 2835241 Looking for HAA accidents that occured using Part 91 when pilot exceeded +0/-0     
Author:you pretty much had to know
11/24/2024 4:33:04 PM

Reply to: 2835219

this would turn into a duty day and rest thing lol



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Msg ID: 2835243 Weird that nobody can cite an accident that might prompt (NT) +0/-0     
Author:safety issues.
11/24/2024 4:45:31 PM

Reply to: 2835241


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Msg ID: 2835245 Weird that nobody can cite an accident that might prompt +0/-0     
Author:accident that might prompt
11/24/2024 5:24:15 PM

Reply to: 2835243

safety issues

wut



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Msg ID: 2835248 No accidents, yet a big cry about "safety" problems.  +0/-0     
Author:Seems all the accidents happen
11/24/2024 6:00:07 PM

Reply to: 2835245

well within the 14 hour duty day, not after on a Part 91 leg



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Msg ID: 2835250 No accidents, yet a big cry about  +0/-0     
Author:fatigue can be cumulative
11/24/2024 6:55:39 PM

Reply to: 2835248

might not be a problem that flight but after only 10 hours rest after a 14 hour day, I'm pretty tired. on nights in the early morning hours, simple tasks can be struggle. 



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Msg ID: 2835252 So, show the accidents where it was a problem enough (NT) +0/-0     
Author:to cry about it! Part 91 is Part 91
11/24/2024 7:38:32 PM

Reply to: 2835250


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Msg ID: 2835253 So, show the accidents where it was a problem enough  +0/-0     
Author:What even is your point
11/24/2024 7:43:19 PM

Reply to: 2835252

There's no accidents directly attributable to your illegal flights so what, you want to make duty days longer? Are you an area manager that no one likes so they can't fill your bases and are trying to cut down on the amount of pilots you have to deal with?



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Msg ID: 2835254 Point? I'm asking for examples of it causing accidents (NT) +0/-0     
Author:Provide some if you can,
11/24/2024 7:57:49 PM

Reply to: 2835253


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Msg ID: 2835263 Nothing is illegal to fly Part 91 past a 14 hour day. +0/-0     
Author:It's Part 91!
11/24/2024 9:26:33 PM

Reply to: 2835253

Where are you making this up from?   Where are the accidents that show it is a problem?



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Msg ID: 2835255 So, show the accidents where it was a problem enough  +0/-0     
Author:yeah bro
11/24/2024 7:58:50 PM

Reply to: 2835252

once it's part 91, I'm ready for another 14



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Msg ID: 2835260 Not under 135, but yeah, you can continue on duty +0/-0     
Author:for however long. Like, to
11/24/2024 9:17:54 PM

Reply to: 2835255

deadhead home!



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Msg ID: 2835262 Sounds like a personal problem! So, where are the stats that is it a (NT) +0/-0     
Author:big problem (IOW, bigger than you)
11/24/2024 9:24:42 PM

Reply to: 2835250


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Msg ID: 2835249 there aren't any... (NT) +0/-0     
Author:you're welcome
11/24/2024 6:13:36 PM

Reply to: 2835219


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Msg ID: 2835264 there aren't any... +0/-0     
Author:this is so just helicopters
11/24/2024 9:33:16 PM

Reply to: 2835249

two non pilots that don't know the regs having an argument about nothing lol



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Msg ID: 2835268 What reg's don't we know? The one that doesn't require you to end your (NT) +0/-0     
Author:duty day for Part 91 flights?
11/24/2024 10:22:00 PM

Reply to: 2835264


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Msg ID: 2835269 What reg's don't we know? The one that doesn't require you to end your +0/-0     
Author:say wut
11/24/2024 10:23:49 PM

Reply to: 2835268

wut reg is that bro. lol you seem upset



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Msg ID: 2835270 why would I be upset over s non existing regulation? (NT) +0/-0     
Author:Anonymous
11/24/2024 10:39:18 PM

Reply to: 2835269


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Msg ID: 2835272 why would I be upset over s non existing regulation? +0/-0     
Author:say wut
11/24/2024 10:53:13 PM

Reply to: 2835270

you just said it was a regulation. lol



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Msg ID: 2835281 No, you've been saying there is a regulation limiting duty under Part 91 (NT) +0/-0     
Author:not me!
11/25/2024 7:13:09 AM

Reply to: 2835272


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Msg ID: 2835287 No, you've been saying there is a regulation limiting duty under Part 91 +0/-0     
Author:no
11/25/2024 9:40:55 AM

Reply to: 2835281

nobody said that 



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Msg ID: 2835293 Yes, there really are some saying that!! (NT) +0/-0     
Author:Anonymous
11/25/2024 11:36:39 AM

Reply to: 2835287


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Msg ID: 2835327 Everyone is saying it. I do the best 10 hours rest. (NT) +0/-0     
Author:Stupendous resting
11/25/2024 8:05:46 PM

Reply to: 2835293


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Msg ID: 2835337 WOW! Not a single accident cited yet! (NT) +0/-1     
Author:Interesting!
11/26/2024 7:52:47 AM

Reply to: 2835219


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Msg ID: 2835340 WOW! Not a single accident cited yet!  +0/-0     
Author:okay
11/26/2024 8:08:26 AM

Reply to: 2835337

and



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Msg ID: 2835367 WOW! Not a single accident cited yet!  +0/-0     
Author:this, of course, means
11/26/2024 11:55:53 AM

Reply to: 2835340

fatigue doesn't exist and does not contribute to accidents



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Msg ID: 2835373 Then make it a universal rest requirement for every pilot regardless! (NT) +0/-1     
Author:No flying after 14 hrs of woke!
11/26/2024 1:21:09 PM

Reply to: 2835367


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Msg ID: 2835374 Private pilot's will have to show 10 hrs of sleep  +0/-1     
Author:in the last 24hrs. no exceptions
11/26/2024 1:38:12 PM

Reply to: 2835373
Fatigue is dangerous!


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Msg ID: 2835384 Then make it a universal rest requirement for every pilot regardless! +0/-0     
Author:say wut
11/26/2024 4:17:49 PM

Reply to: 2835373

don’t you have anything better to do I’m guessing not 



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Msg ID: 2835405 Then make it a universal rest requirement for every pilot regardless! +0/-0     
Author:That's a pretty good point actually
11/26/2024 10:05:38 PM

Reply to: 2835373

It should be brought up at the next FAASTeam meeting.



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Msg ID: 2835406 Then make it a universal rest requirement for every pilot regardless! +0/-0     
Author:I think
11/26/2024 10:12:11 PM

Reply to: 2835405

ill have some tacos for dinner



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Msg ID: 2835369 Looking for HAA accidents that occured using Part 91 when pilot exceeded +0/-0     
Author:Not 135, but...
11/26/2024 12:50:27 PM

Reply to: 2835219

here is one where excessive duty time was determined to be a cause:

https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/104725/pdf




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Msg ID: 2835431 Can you get me the NTSB case number? Link is returning embedded script +0/-0     
Author:See below:
11/27/2024 2:31:23 PM

Reply to: 2835369

Report Generator Web API
 v1 

[ Base URL: /carol-repgen ]
 /carol-repgen/api-docs/v1/api-docs.json 



</p>

api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateFactualReport/{mKey}/{fileFormat}

 GET/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateFactualReport/{mKey}/{fileFormat} Retrieves a factual report for the target case 

api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateFinalReport/{mKey}/{fileFormat}

 GET/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateFinalReport/{mKey}/{fileFormat} Retrieves a final report for the target case 

api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/{mKey}/{fileFormat}

 GET/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/{mKey}/{fileFormat} Retrieves the newest report for the target case 

api/Aviation/ReportMain/GeneratePreliminaryReport/{mKey}/{fileFormat}

 GET/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GeneratePreliminaryReport/{mKey}/{fileFormat} Retrieves a preliminary report for the target case 

api/Aviation/ReportMain/GetSupportedFileOutputFormats

 GET/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GetSupportedFileOutputFormats Returns the list of supported file output formats



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Msg ID: 2835454 Can you get me the NTSB case number? Link is returning embedded script +1/-0     
Author:NTSB #
11/27/2024 7:10:43 PM

Reply to: 2835431

ERA22LA145

Docket: https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket?ProjectID=104725




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Msg ID: 2835459 Danke (NT) +0/-0     
Author:Anonymous
11/27/2024 9:41:05 PM

Reply to: 2835454


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Msg ID: 2835480 Interesting read. I noticed the NTSB dismissed the engine surge incident +0/-0     
Author:and NVG being stowed.
11/28/2024 10:30:03 AM

Reply to: 2835459

The final report says that neither of the two medical crew heard of reported anything.  But, that does not jive with statements they gave.   The NTSB completely dismissed it.

Also, the NTSB totally dismissed the possibility of the crew member in the front seat stowing his NVGs at the very time they were landing on the dolly.   NVG bags/cases have straps that could easily catch switches and flight controls, and that was not addressed.





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Msg ID: 2835483 Interesting read. I noticed the NTSB dismissed the engine surge incident +0/-0     
Author:no way
11/28/2024 10:49:26 AM

Reply to: 2835480

did putting away goggles have anything to do with it



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Msg ID: 2835707 Looking for HAA accidents that occured using Part 91 when pilot exceeded +0/-0     
Author:Just go to work
12/2/2024 10:13:09 PM

Reply to: 2835219

Quit throwing a false safety flag



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