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Msg ID: 2822033 HEMS SPIFR Question +1/-3     
Author:Big Dummy
6/12/2024 12:57:28 AM

Do HEMS companies allow pilots to hand fly approaches and/or en route, in IMC, or must everything in IMC be done with the AP?



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Msg ID: 2822088 HEMS SPIFR Question +1/-1     
Author:Depends on cert
6/12/2024 6:53:24 AM

Reply to: 2822033

Here dual pilot yes, single pilot no.



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Msg ID: 2822089 HEMS SPIFR Question +1/-1     
Author:Also what in RFM
6/12/2024 6:57:15 AM

Reply to: 2822033

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim_html/chap10_section_1.html

 



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Msg ID: 2822091 HEMS SPIFR Question +1/-1     
Author:Trike
6/12/2024 8:18:58 AM

Reply to: 2822089

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2012-title14-vol3/pdf/CFR-2012-title14-vol3-sec135-105.pdf

 



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Msg ID: 2822095 HEMS SPIFR Question +0/-4     
Author:the rfm has nothing to do
6/12/2024 8:43:59 AM

Reply to: 2822089

with the question bro 



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Msg ID: 2822171 HEMS SPIFR Question +6/-0     
Author:Refer to the RFM
6/12/2024 3:27:15 PM

Reply to: 2822095

The RFM is a factor. Look at the supplement for the auto-pilot for restrictions.



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Msg ID: 2822173 HEMS SPIFR Question +0/-2     
Author:no
6/12/2024 5:12:12 PM

Reply to: 2822171

the rfm does not tell you to hand fly or not. that's the question dummie



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Msg ID: 2822172 HEMS SPIFR Question +1/-1     
Author:RFM Guy
6/12/2024 3:29:23 PM

Reply to: 2822095

The following FAA link says refer to the RFM

 

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim_html/chap10_section_1.html

 



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Msg ID: 2822174 HEMS SPIFR Question +0/-1     
Author:no
6/12/2024 5:14:11 PM

Reply to: 2822172

the rfm does not answer that question, newbie



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Msg ID: 2822231 HEMS SPIFR Question +0/-6     
Author:ffs
6/12/2024 11:16:21 PM

Reply to: 2822033

Use the autopilot, dope.  Practice vfr hands on (often) so you are proficient if you have to.  If you are looking at the RFM, GOM or FAR to discuss this issue you have failed.



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Msg ID: 2822285 HEMS SPIFR Question +2/-1     
Author:no
6/13/2024 5:20:29 AM

Reply to: 2822231

and you didn't answer the question, either. the answer is only in one place. the gom 



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Msg ID: 2822293 HEMS SPIFR Question +0/-5     
Author:Big Dummy (OP)
6/13/2024 5:47:51 AM

Reply to: 2822285

I thought it would be in the Ops Specs. It's odd that not a single HEMS guy is on this forum to definitively answer this simple question. Thanks for nothing guys. What a bunch of clowns on here.



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Msg ID: 2822294 HEMS SPIFR Question +4/-1     
Author:there is no definitive answer
6/13/2024 5:54:35 AM

Reply to: 2822293

because every employer is different. it's in the gom. why the hell would it be in the op specs. at PHI, you are not allowed to hand fly single pilot in IMC.



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Msg ID: 2822306 HEMS SPIFR Question +5/-3     
Author:SPIFR pilot
6/13/2024 2:41:26 PM

Reply to: 2822294
It's just never crossed my mind. I never think, I'm in the clouds, lets try to hand fly this thung. I have other things to pay attention to.


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Msg ID: 2822309 HEMS SPIFR Question +1/-3     
Author:if it never crossed your mind
6/13/2024 3:04:33 PM

Reply to: 2822306

you're doing it wrong 



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Msg ID: 2822310 HEMS SPIFR Question +4/-4     
Author:Ugh
6/13/2024 5:29:23 PM

Reply to: 2822309
There is absolutely zero reason for you to turn the autopilot off and hand fly it in the clouds single pilot. You are just putting you and your crew at risk because of your over confidence. With a second pilot, sure. In a level D, all the time.


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Msg ID: 2822311 HEMS SPIFR Question +1/-3     
Author:say wut
6/13/2024 5:48:54 PM

Reply to: 2822310

yeah, turn it off in the level d all the time. 

lol where do these idiots come from



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Msg ID: 2822312 HEMS SPIFR Question +1/-1     
Author:I "turned off" the auto pilot
6/13/2024 8:42:58 PM

Reply to: 2822311

in the "level d" and killed my crew due to over confidence



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Msg ID: 2822313 HEMS SPIFR Question +0/-1     
Author:ffs
6/13/2024 8:48:04 PM

Reply to: 2822231

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75GaqVWqEXU

 



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Msg ID: 2822326 HEMS SPIFR Question +0/-3     
Author:Mark Twain
6/14/2024 8:35:45 AM

Reply to: 2822033

There is a difference between "hand flying" and with (without) "AP".  Hand Flying would indicate you are manipulating your rate of descent and starting/stopping turns via hand.  Your SAS, AFCS, altitude/heading/airspeed holds are still on and active.  You're just not dialing in your altitudes and headings via the pots.  Without AP would indicate you want to secure all stability augmentation which in turn alleviates your holds as well as dialing in altitudes/headings too.  At some point during the approach, you're going to have "hand fly" it to the deck.       



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Msg ID: 2822328 HEMS SPIFR Question +1/-1     
Author:no
6/14/2024 8:40:46 AM

Reply to: 2822326

hand flying is uncoupled from upper modes.



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Msg ID: 2822332 HEMS SPIFR Question +0/-1     
Author:Really dude
6/14/2024 9:11:39 AM

Reply to: 2822328

Thanks for explaining something we all know. Everyone knows hand flying is decoupled from the upper modes. We know SAS is still. And to the guy that pointed out you hand fly the bottom of every approach, well of course we do once we break out. The autopilot isn't landing the thing now is it. The check airmen are correct. They see some crazy stuff from some of the pilots.



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Msg ID: 2822344 spoken by a real foul mouth know nothing +0/-2     
Author:which idiot are you
6/14/2024 11:36:37 AM

Reply to: 2822343

 

"There is a difference between "hand flying" and with (without) "AP".  Hand Flying would indicate you are manipulating your rate of descent and starting/stopping turns via hand.  Your SAS, AFCS, altitude/heading/airspeed holds are still on and active.  You're just not dialing in your altitudes and headings via the pots.  Without AP would indicate you want to secure all stability augmentation which in turn alleviates your holds as well as dialing in altitudes/headings too.  At some point during the approach, you're going to have "hand fly" it to the deck."   

 



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Msg ID: 2822785 HEMS SPIFR Question +1/-0     
Author:Good try
6/21/2024 7:06:13 PM

Reply to: 2822326

- keep thinking.  Ur mixing a couple realities.



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Msg ID: 2822353 HEMS SPIFR Question +0/-2     
Author:14 CFR 91.13
6/14/2024 1:22:48 PM

Reply to: 2822033

Careless or reckless operation.  Well St Peter, I killed myself and my passengers because while I had an autopilot, no one could cite a regulation that said I had to use it.  Those clowns.  They are probably calling me a hero at my funeral.



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Msg ID: 2822356 HEMS SPIFR Question +0/-1     
Author:say wut
6/14/2024 1:41:49 PM

Reply to: 2822353

you killed yourself because there wasn't a regulation against it. 

lol



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Msg ID: 2822361 HEMS SPIFR Question +0/-1     
Author:it may not be a reg but neither is
6/14/2024 2:43:52 PM

Reply to: 2822353

hot fueling your it's most likely in the gom. I wonder why you can't find it.



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Msg ID: 2822393 HEMS SPIFR Question +1/-1     
Author:EMSer Ck pilot
6/14/2024 11:52:32 PM

Reply to: 2822361

In general, no. All IMC flying is done with aid of the auto flight system. There are periods where you are IMC and may not have the autopilot upper modes in use. Though, that time is largely limited to take off/climb out and the end of the approach. That said, even then most are using the autopilot upper modes. Now, im training we spend quite a bit of time hand flying and working in AP failures of different sorts. To regularly hand fly in IMC SPIFR is not the normal procedure when you have many other tools thst are there to reduce workload and enhance safety.

 



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Msg ID: 2822397 HEMS SPIFR Question +1/-2     
Author:no
6/15/2024 6:46:54 AM

Reply to: 2822393

there are not periods when you are in IMC where you are not coupled. if you are taking off, climbing out or on any part of an approach in IMC uncoupled, you are doing it wrong.



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Msg ID: 2822398 HEMS SPIFR Question +0/-2     
Author:taking off uncoupled into IMC
6/15/2024 6:57:58 AM

Reply to: 2822397

is probably the most dangerous thing I've heard about in a good while and this guy says that's what they're teaching. ohhhhhhhhhkaaaay



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Msg ID: 2822414 HEMS SPIFR Question +2/-1     
Author:MaxTork
6/15/2024 5:17:56 PM

Reply to: 2822397

Every autopilot has a minimum engagement airspeed, so every ITO begins with a hand-flown segment before upper modes can be engaged.  You probably have ATT mode engaged, HDG bug on RWY hdg, altitude pre-select on appropriate altitude and departure route ready in a flight plan when upper modes are accessible, but the takeoff is all you.



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Msg ID: 2822442 HEMS SPIFR Question +3/-1     
Author:MaxTork
6/16/2024 12:59:00 AM

Reply to: 2822397

The autopilot has a minimum engagement airspeed, usually around 60 KIAS in most aircraft.  Some part of the ITO will be accomplished hand-flown until that speed is reached.  Depending on the aircraft, you can be in ATT mode, have HDG bug and level off altitude set, but the initial part of the departure is all you.  It's advisable to initiate a stable climb also while hand-flying, unless you prefer going 70 knots at 50 feet while looking down for the flight director buttons.  



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Msg ID: 2822445 HEMS SPIFR Question +0/-3     
Author:yeah but
6/16/2024 4:55:54 AM

Reply to: 2822442

you're still doing the climb in VMC



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Msg ID: 2822451 HEMS SPIFR Question +0/-4     
Author:yes I prefer
6/16/2024 10:44:02 AM

Reply to: 2822442

to push the heading bug and indicated airspeed while going down the runway in VMC. never heard of ATT mode. the ITO is to be performed in VMC until coupled.

maybe you think it's better to be looking for those buttons in IMC.



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Msg ID: 2822482 HEMS SPIFR Question +2/-1     
Author:Seriously?
6/16/2024 5:58:42 PM

Reply to: 2822451

Never heard of ATT mode otherwise known at attitude rentention?  Please tell me you are kidding.  Please get back in the books.  ATT mode is what you get when you turn the AP on.  Often called the outer loop or lower mode.  It's what allows you to fly SPIFR. Not to be confused with the upper modes. Most RFM's will say for IFR flight the Autopilot must be on and in the ATT mode.  I believe the EC135 says AP on and A TRIM on.  This is basic attitude retention.



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Msg ID: 2822581 HEMS SPIFR Question +0/-1     
Author:Airbus Adam
6/19/2024 9:45:21 AM

Reply to: 2822393
I just get light on the skids, rotate the helicopter to a clear TO direction, then come inside and watch TQ as I pull until just below yellow, push the GA button, then all the other buttons that come alive after that... let the helicopter do all the work. Isn't that what everyone does?


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Msg ID: 2823017 HEMS SPIFR Question +0/-0     
Author:Understand
6/24/2024 10:40:21 PM

Reply to: 2822033

and use your autopilot as possible.  But, it's Ike a copilot, sometimes they do things you are not anticipating.  Stay wide awake and you'll be fine.  On a busy day autopilots are a great way to lessen fatigue.



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