| Msg ID: 2814705 |
Worse than the old lawn darts. H-60 / AH-64 +1/-7
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| Author:Retired
5/12/2024 8:30:41 AM |
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army-apache-riley/ 13 crashes in six months. Bad luck, or something more ? I think times are changing, for the worse. |
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| Msg ID: 2814714 |
Nothing wrong with the aircraft +14/-1
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| Author:An Army Guy
5/12/2024 3:53:26 PM Reply to: 2814705 |
I was at Rucker (now Novosel) when they brought in the Lakota, re-wrote a training program that had made high standard aviators for many years to now dumbed-down maneuvers, over-reliance on upper mode and GPS usage, and proceeded to pass every student no matter what (the "everyone gets an A / we're short pilots so push them through" mentality/excuse). Many of us warned of a rise in accidents/incidents starting in 2022 when that generation became PICs. Not sure that's the exact statistic we're seeing but I would certainly call it a serious contributing factor. It's certainly not because of GWOT OPTEMPO, so it leans more toward lack of training and standards early on... Also, I know for a fact on the UH side that students were let through the course with significantly lower standards to pass than before the Lakota program. None of this is surprising |
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| Msg ID: 2814721 |
Nothing wrong with the aircraft +4/-2
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| Author:Agree
5/12/2024 7:33:14 PM Reply to: 2814714 |
There's been a drift away from the basic foundations of aviation education. Modern aircraft with more power and digital displays are still bound by the laws of physics and aerodynamics. |
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| Msg ID: 2814722 |
Nothing wrong with the aircraft +2/-1
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| Author:Incredible
5/12/2024 8:07:40 PM Reply to: 2814721 |
naivite in the assumptions about what constitutes excellent core helicopter training. All corner cutting in the name of cost savings. Comes down to understanding the real costs of accidents versus training. |
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| Msg ID: 2814727 |
Worse than the old lawn darts. H-60 / AH-64 +10/-2
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| Author:83 WO
5/12/2024 11:28:43 PM Reply to: 2814705 |
Bring back the TH-55... |
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| Msg ID: 2814748 |
Worse than the old lawn darts. H-60 / AH-64 +0/-0
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| Author:oldNtired
5/13/2024 2:20:30 PM Reply to: 2814727 |
I think I agree with Army guy. Honest curious question ? how much flight time doew an army pilot have 2 years out of flight school. I know its mission dependant. Not being critical, just curious ? |
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| Msg ID: 2814770 |
Worse than the old lawn darts. H-60 / AH-64 +2/-4
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| Author:blade_slap
5/13/2024 11:57:50 PM Reply to: 2814705 |
I'm not gonna say what most all pilots know.. but without going into it, in general there is a significant difference in the overall quality of piloting between military and civilian pilots, and it's not individual pilots fault. I'm not a hater.. just saying the quiet part out loud, but if you need to, bring the heat now |
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| Msg ID: 2814778 |
Worse than the old lawn darts. H-60 / AH-64 +7/-2
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| Author:Nice try
5/14/2024 9:18:55 AM Reply to: 2814770 |
It's easy to paint Mil vs Civ pilots with a broad brush. Inexperienced pilots are the same regardless of where they were trained. Low "quality" pilots are the same regardless of where they were allowed to slip thru whatever training program they completed. Complacent pilots, non-proficient pilots, over-confident, etc, etc. The issue is not as simple as Mil vs Civ. |
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| Msg ID: 2814788 |
Worse than the old lawn darts. H-60 / AH-64 +4/-3
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| Author:An Army Guy
5/14/2024 12:44:56 PM Reply to: 2814778 |
It's certainly not an apples to apples comparison. Mil guys move out of squirrely helicopters after training and fly advanced, 2 pilot aircraft (a/c that nowadays almost completely fly themselves) for the next 6-20 years. Most of them rarely fly instruments in busy national airspace. When they move into the civilian world of course their control touch will be garbage, they'll probably be VERY overwhelmed in a single-pilot cockpit, will be afraid of going in the clouds or flying in busy airspace, and depending on what stupid rules/commanders they had they may be overly cautious about making certain PIC decisions on their own as a result (sad but true). Then the are the overly cowboy types to deal with sometimes depending on the community they came from... The culture you come from can be hard to break. |
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| Msg ID: 2814812 |
Worse than the old lawn darts. H-60 / AH-64 +1/-1
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| Author:reply
5/14/2024 10:49:44 PM Reply to: 2814788 |
at An Army Guy.. that's exactly the point I was trying to make. well said |
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| Msg ID: 2814860 |
Worse than the old lawn darts. H-60 / AH-64 +2/-1
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| Author:Command
5/15/2024 10:34:43 PM Reply to: 2814705 |
We'll need at least another 12 crashes and 2 years to review the data and summary root causes. Expect any changes to implement is 3 years following. |
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