If you fly in the mountains and have a need for an unscheduled landing at altitude, is there a flight technique to determine if you can hover in ground effect at the LZ.

EX: So maybe fly at 60kts at the same altitude as the proposed LZ and if you can get X feet rate of climb per minute you should be good?

1. This is going to sound dumb, but try to OGE hover. If you can, you know you can IGE. Just making sure to cover the most obvious choice first.

2. Engage your SAS and pull out your EFB. Input your conditions and see what the performance charts say. Is this the fastest and most accurate? Obviously not, but if you're clueless it'll be something.

Are these great ideas? No, not really. Interested to hear from the more seasoned mountain fliers.

We did an OGE check prior to getting to the LZ in VN. Doing multiple trips with varying loads to different elevations gave no time to look at performace charts.

We did an OGE check prior to getting to the LZ in VN. Doing multiple trips with varying loads to different elevations gave no time to look at performace charts.

Every aircraft type has their own rule of thumb rules if you don't have time to grab the chart. Hopefully during training they passed those along to you. If you can't remember any of those then safest bet is to attempt an OGE hover at that altitude and if you can accomplish that then you know when you start the approach you will have it all day.  Most of the time unless you have a fairly open area you are landing in you are going to need to have some OGE ability anyway on the way in and almost for sure on the way out so that's what you really want to know you can do.  Only being able to HIGE vs HOGE into an offsite LZ is how you get yourself stuck. Then there are a host of tips and techniques to fix that one too that dont include the race towards the trees hoping to get ETL and then pull up to clear, a few good videos out there of what happens when that goes poorly. 

Yeah, I've never cared about HIGE in those types of situations. If I can HOGE then I know I can HIGE, so do a HOGE check before landing. HIGE is kind of irrelevant. Where that would come into play would be if you brought in a bunch of loggers in the morning, sat around until it was now 1400 in the afternoon and loaded back up. Can you HIGE now?

OGE power you're looking at a possible one-way trip...don't be that guy.

Just tell them to heavy.

Tree Fiddy, go for it!!!!!!!!

check power, act accordingly?

If you conduct a normal approach, below ETL airspeed, and can maintain a constant angle of approach with a rate of descent below 300 fpm you will have IGE hover power. If terrain permits, in the mountains, conduct the approach along a flight path parallel to your anticipated approach path in a manner that allows an escape route. I have used this method for years in BH212s, BH412s, BH206s and BH407s. This method is a least as accurate as accurate as performance charts although charts should always be a starting point. If there is any doubt, when using this method download weight or find a lower spot. 

You didn't say what airframe, where (hover hole or wide open meadow etc)

Makes a big difference....

Myself unless it's wide open in all directions, I like to have HOGE capabilities plus extra to climb

yeah need more info and I like to be able to high hover and climb away lol thanks for the tips

Thats exactly what I said. Being close to the limit is entirely different in an R22 vs 206 vs 407

R22 the engine is going to be your limit, if you pull too much pitch RPM droops and she quits flying sooner then you might want to.

206 with older TR blades you will most likely be running out of pedal, no big deal if you planned it right shoot your approach gently and park it just before she starts to rotate on you. Gets a little tricky in confined areas with shifty winds.

407 just pull pitch until some warning light blinks at you and lower the coll a little.........kidding, probably be monitoring the MGT closely and since it's a higher disc loaded rotor design small changes require more HP.(read some Ray Prouty articles on Aerodynamics}

205++ just enjoy the ride and don't worry about a thing. If you're heavy wait a little and she'll "hop" herself out of the dip/confined area. Just a lovely ol gal!

to hear you thinking like this.  Not a common trait.

Performance curves in the RFM...

Should have that all worked up prior to any maneuver.  For a person to give performance planning a "Thumbs Down,"  he or she should look at the requirements of 91.103.  

Not understanding the expected aircraft performance prior to the flight and/or a maneuver, would be like a 121 air carrier pushing the thrust levers to takeoff position and then determining if there is enough runway to reach V1, Vr, and V2.

v/r