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Msg ID: 2803515 Oklahoma Crash +0/-0     
Author:pops
1/21/2024 7:51:51 AM

I heard there was a AEL aircraft that went down last night. Did everyone make it out safe?



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Msg ID: 2803516 Oklahoma Crash +1/-1     
Author:Reader
1/21/2024 7:57:35 AM

Reply to: 2803515

AEL posted on their FB page "all three crew members perished in the crash". Prayers for AEL, the community and all those affected. 



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Msg ID: 2803518 Oklahoma Crash +3/-0     
Author:pops
1/21/2024 8:04:48 AM

Reply to: 2803516

RIP folks, im sorry.



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Msg ID: 2803517 Oklahoma Crash +0/-0     
Author:rip
1/21/2024 7:59:03 AM

Reply to: 2803515

all perished. 206 on way back to base after dropping patient at hospital in OKC.



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Msg ID: 2803927 Don’t fly B206’s for any HAA Company (NT) +1/-0     
Author:Shows how cheap the company
1/24/2024 7:00:29 PM

Reply to: 2803517


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Msg ID: 2803521 Oklahoma Crash +0/-1     
Author:Anonymous
1/21/2024 9:00:29 AM

Reply to: 2803515

https://kfor.com/news/three-killed-in-weatherford-air-evac-helicopter-crash/amp/ 



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Msg ID: 2803538 Oklahoma Crash (NT) +2/-1     
Author:Not much altitude 1700msl?
1/21/2024 9:49:36 AM

Reply to: 2803515


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Msg ID: 2803541 1991 L3 (NT) +0/-1     
Author:Really?
1/21/2024 10:23:57 AM

Reply to: 2803538


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Msg ID: 2803545 1991 L3 +3/-1     
Author:yeah really
1/21/2024 10:30:24 AM

Reply to: 2803541

probably didn't have anything to do with the aircraft 



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Msg ID: 2803551 1991 L3 +0/-1     
Author:The Bird...
1/21/2024 11:07:56 AM

Reply to: 2803545

N295AE

Sad. RIP...



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Msg ID: 2803553 1991 L3 +6/-1     
Author:Curious
1/21/2024 11:13:44 AM

Reply to: 2803551

200' AGL at 120 knots at night doesn't sound like the HAA flight profiles I would expect at AEL

Last reported ADS-B Point from FlightAware:

Sun 12:23:33 AM 35.5494 -98.5489 ← 267° 111 128 1,700


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Msg ID: 2803555 1991 L3 (NT) +0/-4     
Author:I think that's AGL
1/21/2024 11:21:29 AM

Reply to: 2803553


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Msg ID: 2803568 1991 L3 +3/-1     
Author:Thinking
1/21/2024 11:45:33 AM

Reply to: 2803555
It is off ADS-B so it should be uncorrected MSL shown on that graph above....not considering local weather/ pressure it indicates about 200' AGL. Also, if it was AGL on that chart it would fluctuate more as the aircraft flew over whatever terrain is in the area.


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Msg ID: 2803577 1991 L3 +1/-1     
Author:flight aware
1/21/2024 12:31:51 PM

Reply to: 2803568

Heliport where is took off, OL16, is 1150' MSL KOJA is 1600' MSL. Near the accident site, 2O8, MSL is 1600. The ground elevation rose as the flight continued

Aircraft flew at 1500MSL for probably 6-7 minutes then climbed to 1700MSL for the rest of the flight.

If this is correct, it never flew more than 350' AGL and steadily lost altitude above AGL. Got low enough to hit wires or anything else.



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Msg ID: 2803580 1991 L3 +4/-1     
Author:no ground scarring that I can see
1/21/2024 12:38:50 PM

Reply to: 2803577

And where is the rotor head from the main wreckage? I can't tell.





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Msg ID: 2803581 1991 L3 +0/-1     
Author:above post
1/21/2024 12:39:44 PM

Reply to: 2803580

is two seperate pictures



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Msg ID: 2803582 1991 L3 +1/-0     
Author:blade missing
1/21/2024 12:55:08 PM

Reply to: 2803581




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Msg ID: 2803601 1991 L3 +1/-1     
Author:Effing
1/21/2024 4:54:32 PM

Reply to: 2803582

VH



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Msg ID: 2803583 1991 L3 +2/-0     
Author:Understanding ADS-B
1/21/2024 1:06:09 PM

Reply to: 2803577


The altimeter setting from OKC at the 2252 METAR was 30.44, which means the aircraft MSL altitude was actually about 520 feet higher than the ADS-B altitude.



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Msg ID: 2803629 1991 L3 +1/-0     
Author:I concur
1/22/2024 2:41:33 AM

Reply to: 2803577

Looks like that bird was not equipped with rad alt.  Had it been, May have prevented this mishap.

 

Rising terrain, night time.  seems like pilot was skimming the ground??

 

Could be wrong.  High pressure makes it hard to calc.  If it was a 29.92 day this flight aware data would be much easier to interpret.



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Msg ID: 2803630 1991 L3 +0/-0     
Author:The Roo of Gu
1/22/2024 3:08:22 AM

Reply to: 2803629

If one were to compare a similar flight....

 

https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/N295AE/history/20240115/0144Z/OL16/4OK1

 

One would see the prefered Alt at all phases of flight over the same terrain. .... Proper clearances long the way, and good ground separation.

 

Something was very wrong with the final flight and failure to increase alt for rising terrain.

 

Moon phase and rise on 20th showed there should have been plenty of good vis on a night flight even with overcast skies.

 

Lack of awareness of rising terrain?  Was the pilot familiar with this route?  Or was it his first run from that Heliport?

RIP to the lost.



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Msg ID: 2803631 1991 L3 +0/-0     
Author:and in case you were wondering
1/22/2024 3:25:38 AM

Reply to: 2803630

the baro set for 14 jan was much the same value as 20 jan

 

https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/usa/oklahoma-city/historic

 



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Msg ID: 2803556 Oklahoma Crash +0/-0     
Author:Flightaware
1/21/2024 11:22:45 AM

Reply to: 2803515




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Msg ID: 2803574 Oklahoma Crash +1/-1     
Author:Ok pilot
1/21/2024 12:28:55 PM

Reply to: 2803515
Big tower close to crash and according to flight aware flying low. Weather was good last night. Wonder if it was CFIT.


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Msg ID: 2803588 Oklahoma Crash (NT) +1/-2     
Author:Bird strike/flock of geese
1/21/2024 2:49:56 PM

Reply to: 2803574


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Msg ID: 2803593 Oklahoma Crash +0/-0     
Author:Bubba.
1/21/2024 3:28:17 PM

Reply to: 2803588

Don't think there were any towers near the crash site.   



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Msg ID: 2803714 Oklahoma Crash +0/-1     
Author:Lone Star Heli
1/23/2024 10:06:44 AM

Reply to: 2803593

That tower was unlit according to NOTAM. 
I was thinking they possibly hit the tower. 



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Msg ID: 2803594 Oklahoma Crash +0/-1     
Author:Just the facts
1/21/2024 3:29:17 PM

Reply to: 2803588
Bird strike? Meaning as one of the potentials? Or is there actual evidence?


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Msg ID: 2803597 Oklahoma Crash (NT) +0/-2     
Author:Fuel Starvation
1/21/2024 4:07:33 PM

Reply to: 2803594


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Msg ID: 2803598 Oklahoma Crash +0/-0     
Author:Cold
1/21/2024 4:09:50 PM

Reply to: 2803597

Can that whole trip be completed with a full bag in a 206L3? Was there fuel at any of the hospitals?



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Msg ID: 2803600 Oklahoma Crash +5/-0     
Author:anony
1/21/2024 4:52:29 PM

Reply to: 2803598

They had done the trip 3 times in the last month, about 1.5 hours total.  I doubt running out of fuel because the ADSB coverage over there is great and will pick them up all the way to the ground based on previous ADSB data.  This aircraft literally vanished off the ADSB map while still at cruise altitude/speed and the wreckage is only 600' away from that point.  Even the worst possible auto the aircraft would at least transmit data on the way down.  Aircraft landed inverted with a main rotor separated from the aircraft and on said main rotor one of the blades is broken at the root or completely missing, picture quality hard to see.  Even a flock of geese I wouldnt expect a blade broken off at the attachment point.  Once better pictures show up that show where the other parts of the main rotor blades are it will become much clearer.



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Msg ID: 2803604 Oklahoma Crash (NT) +3/-2     
Author:Bird strike/flock of geese=mast bumping
1/21/2024 5:29:56 PM

Reply to: 2803600


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Msg ID: 2803605 Oklahoma Crash (NT) +0/-1     
Author:Yep..mast bumping then rotor seperation
1/21/2024 5:31:14 PM

Reply to: 2803604


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Msg ID: 2803606 Oklahoma Crash +0/-1     
Author:Anonymous
1/21/2024 5:58:58 PM

Reply to: 2803605

Mast bumping, wouldn't the ADSB data show that? Just asking for a friend. 



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Msg ID: 2803609 Oklahoma Crash +1/-1     
Author:anony
1/21/2024 6:23:34 PM

Reply to: 2803606

Depends on where their transponder antenna is, sometime during an inflight breakup the transponder, GPS and antenna stay connected and give out another 2-3 seconds of data on the way down but sometimes a tail chop will take out one of the antennas and you lose that chance of another 1 or 2 pings.  I can still go with hitting a goose / geese causing what we see so far its just that one main rotor blade that appears missing all the way to the attachment point that feels odd.  Even during mast bumps/ tail chops that blades stay attached to the roots and break off where they hit the tail and unfortunely the cabin structure.  



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Msg ID: 2803615 Oklahoma Crash +2/-1     
Author:Why
1/21/2024 9:12:09 PM

Reply to: 2803609

From what I have seen posted on here they were flying at around 200 ft agl.  No matter the cause what the hell were they doing flying at 200 ft.  At night.  Why do people keep doing this.
please stop. Think.  



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Msg ID: 2803681 Oklahoma Crash +2/-1     
Author:Louder for those in the back!
1/22/2024 4:39:02 PM

Reply to: 2803615

They absolutely were not flying around 200 ft agl. Every person commenting on here that thinks so needs to turn in their certificate (if they have one). For the last ime, ADS-B reported altutude that we observe on Flight Aware IS NOT CORRECTED TO MSL!! It simply transmits the pressure altitude. Based on the altimeter setting at the time the reported altitude will be 520' lower than the MSL altitude they were flyig at. I have no idea what AEL's GOM says about minimum enroute altitudes, but they were not flying at 1700 MSL! Somewhere around 2200'MSL!



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Msg ID: 2803619 Oklahoma Crash +1/-1     
Author:Anonymous
1/21/2024 9:29:59 PM

Reply to: 2803606

>>>>>>>>  Mast bumping, wouldn't the ADSB data show that? Just asking for a friend.

ADSB transmits location data.  If there were a catastrphic event and the transmitter was destroyed, or electrical power interrupted, the ADSB would not show it at all.

 



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Msg ID: 2804042 Oklahoma Crash +0/-1     
Author:Agreed...
1/26/2024 10:09:18 AM

Reply to: 2803594

I would deduce if it were a bird strike capable of bringing down that aircraft, wouldn't there be some residual blood, guts, feathers, etc which could easily be identified?

Just a thought...

 

v/r



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Msg ID: 2803618 Oklahoma Crash -- Obviously Catastrophic  +0/-1     
Author:Anonymous
1/21/2024 9:27:15 PM

Reply to: 2803515

It seems obviously catastrophic, due to the fact that the ADSB end abruptly.  It looks like he was flying along and turned off the power.  No change in speed or altitude and the data suddenly stops. 

The NTSB will probably figure this one out quickly.  (And if he DID collide with that tower, as suggested, they probably have already found evidence of that.)

 



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Msg ID: 2803620 Oklahoma Crash-Bird strike/Flock of geese +3/-1     
Author:Came through the plexi
1/21/2024 9:52:07 PM

Reply to: 2803618

Yanked back on the cyclic, then forward, low G, mast bumping. Game over. 

R.I.P. 



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Msg ID: 2803621 Oklahoma Crash-Bird strike/Flock of geese +1/-0     
Author:Anony
1/21/2024 10:12:41 PM

Reply to: 2803620

Crash was 1.6nm prior to towers. Geese into the cabin with rapid aft then forward cyclic for mast bump I can see. No fire on impact so will be easy for them to find any bird remains to rule it in or out. There is now aerial footage showing larger scene and the other rotor blade is only 100 feet away from the rotor head so that rules out throwing a blade. Rotor and main cabin were not zoomed out enough to see both but they look far apart which continues support for mast bump. 



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Msg ID: 2803623 Oklahoma Crash-Bird strike/Flock of geese (NT) +0/-5     
Author:They did not hit a tower. Ridic theory.
1/21/2024 10:19:47 PM

Reply to: 2803621


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Msg ID: 2803654 lots of loose stuff in the cabin! (NT) +0/-1     
Author:Anonymous
1/22/2024 10:40:28 AM

Reply to: 2803621


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Msg ID: 2803625 Oklahoma Crash-Bird strike/Flock of geese +20/-0     
Author:PHI
1/21/2024 10:26:30 PM

Reply to: 2803620

I can speak for everyone at PHI and say.....

Condolences to all invloved. To all the family, friends, and AE employees this touched, you are in our thoughts and prayers. Please rest in peace to those that passed.  



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Msg ID: 2803633 Oklahoma Crash +0/-1     
Author:OK Pilot
1/22/2024 3:50:33 AM

Reply to: 2803515
After looking at data and compairing to my flights in NE Oklahoma on Flight Aware, altitude was 1700 ft AGL. Mast bumping is my guess. I've had a bitd strike at 1500ft AGL at 1am that took out my wind screen. Could have been birds, also tower was just west of crash. Guess we'll have to wait and see. Prayers to families and crews. Fly safe!


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Msg ID: 2803634 Oklahoma Crash +4/-1     
Author:1700AGL?
1/22/2024 4:39:13 AM

Reply to: 2803633

That seems way off.

 

If you google earth that crash area and see eye view the elevation shows 1,565ft.

https://earth.google.com/web/@35.55070981,-98.54566407,476.37454527a,6178.26056539d,35y,359.60221527h,0t,0r/data=OgMKATA

 

Now we all know the flightaware mode c data is shown at 29.92.  So if it fell off of the map at 1700ft reported alt on a 30.44 baro set day, the best he could have been was actual MSL alt of +476.2ft or 2176 ft (msl)

MSL from elevation equals AGL.  2176-1565ft= 611ft. AGL.

 

U can check the math here.

https://www.weather.gov/epz/wxcalc_pressurealtitude

 

There was a lowering of pressure going on also to consider.  High to low look out below.

The baro was steadily falling that day and into the next day.

 

I think rising terrain coupled with a falling baro and a failure to increase alt and hold a cruise alt of only hundreds of feet above ground level may have caused this accident.

 

 

 

 

 

 



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Msg ID: 2803635 Oklahoma Crash +0/-1     
Author:Anonymous
1/22/2024 4:50:53 AM

Reply to: 2803634

hum

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TTZ5_wR8mk

 



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Msg ID: 2803636 Oklahoma Crash +0/-1     
Author:proximity
1/22/2024 4:59:49 AM

Reply to: 2803635

of the severed tail at the gearbox/fin near the main wreckage seems to me that the main rotor was still swinging pretty good when it chopped the boom....probably fairly near the ground. 

 

Seems heavy pitch inputs could have done this one in.

 

Seems like the main rotor head is not too far from the main debris field but hard to say as the video does not connect the two very well.

A pan out is what was needed on this footage.



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Msg ID: 2803637 Oklahoma Crash +3/-3     
Author:Dang…
1/22/2024 6:11:21 AM

Reply to: 2803636

25 minutes flying...  close to the ground...  ADSB data shows cruise flight with autopilot on ... only 100 feet AGL  in last seconds... passing over a tree line.

 

 I really question the pilot on this one. 

GMR requires 1000' AGL in cruise...   clearly not complied with here... 



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Msg ID: 2803638 Oklahoma Crash +3/-1     
Author:As said
1/22/2024 6:19:03 AM

Reply to: 2803637
ADS-B does not adjust for altimeter changes. Helicopter was at around 500’


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Msg ID: 2803642 Looking at the PICS of the crash +0/-1     
Author:doesn't look like any Post Fire
1/22/2024 8:39:49 AM

Reply to: 2803638

on any debris on the ground....No fire at all.....did this aircraft have crash resistent tanks? was this a Low Fuel situation or did they get fuel heading back to base....just kinda curious seems unusual for the damage..



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Msg ID: 2803645 Oklahoma Crash +0/-2     
Author:Unknown
1/22/2024 8:48:50 AM

Reply to: 2803638

Composit blade failure?



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Msg ID: 2803643 WELL GMR doesn't require anything  +0/-1     
Author:they don't have a 135
1/22/2024 8:41:09 AM

Reply to: 2803637

Each company OWNED by GMR has their own GOM and rules....don't throw the rest of us in the mix of this...



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Msg ID: 2803647 Oklahoma Crash +0/-5     
Author:No it doesn’t
1/22/2024 9:28:04 AM

Reply to: 2803637

GMR does not require 1000 AGL in cruise flight, but rather recommends it.

Of coarse now it may be mandated.



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Msg ID: 2803655 Oklahoma Crash +0/-1     
Author:Look at when an EMS machine goes down
1/22/2024 10:43:00 AM

Reply to: 2803647

Every is suddenly an NTSB expert 



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Msg ID: 2803670 Oklahoma Crash +0/-3     
Author:oldNtired
1/22/2024 2:29:35 PM

Reply to: 2803655

If no evidence of birds look for swash plate bearing failure.



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Msg ID: 2803673 I'd be looking for that (NT) +2/-1     
Author:missing blade
1/22/2024 2:45:20 PM

Reply to: 2803670


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Msg ID: 2803680 I'd be looking for that +2/-0     
Author:There are pics
1/22/2024 3:58:10 PM

Reply to: 2803673

that show it sitting about 30 yards from the head and other blade.



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Msg ID: 2803687 I believe... +1/-2     
Author:...
1/22/2024 6:10:09 PM

Reply to: 2803680

the blade part you mention is the remaining blade attached to the hub. Still missing one blade.

And looking at the compact debris field and distances my guess is they lost the missing blade in flight.



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Msg ID: 2803688 I believe... +5/-1     
Author:Anonymous
1/22/2024 6:35:45 PM

Reply to: 2803687

The detached blade was found about 100' from the main wreckage. 



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Msg ID: 2803697 I believe... +3/-2     
Author:Sadly yes
1/22/2024 10:40:02 PM

Reply to: 2803688

It's called "Blue Blades" which normally happens after a severe cyclic imput when you're unfortunatly plowing thru a flock of geese. RIP!! 



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Msg ID: 2803698 I believe... +0/-3     
Author: old guy
1/22/2024 10:47:19 PM

Reply to: 2803688

Bell over the years has had a few failures of rotor hub TT strap. That's my guess of the catastrophe.



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Msg ID: 2803699 I believe... +8/-1     
Author:not TT strap,
1/22/2024 11:11:04 PM

Reply to: 2803698

the hub and grip are still together.  Blade is broken.



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Msg ID: 2803703 I believe... Same +1/-1     
Author:Stick Lifter
1/23/2024 5:17:14 AM

Reply to: 2803699

https://www.vanhornaviation.com/vha-responds-to-tsb-report-a19p0142



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Msg ID: 2803779 I believe... Same +0/-1     
Author:That sounds like
1/23/2024 8:24:09 PM

Reply to: 2803703

the response from Survival Flight CEO after the NTSB report came out.  🤣🤣🤣🤦‍♂️



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Msg ID: 2803785 I believe... Same +0/-0     
Author:anony
1/23/2024 9:40:33 PM

Reply to: 2803779

https://irp.cdn-website.com/e3690e0e/files/uploaded/Van%20Horn%20Aviation%20Response%20to%20Air%20Transportation%20Safety%20Investigation%20Report%20A19P0142%20-%20technical.pdf

 

The larger techincal response from Van Horne about the blades in the previous referenced accident.



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Msg ID: 2803715 Oklahoma Crash +2/-1     
Author:Bwkimmell
1/23/2024 10:09:08 AM

Reply to: 2803637

Very sad day for HEMS crews all around and our thoughts and prayers are with the friends and families of the crew that was lost.

FlightAware FAQ regarding altitudes:

Are displayed flight altitudes AGL (above ground level) or MSL (mean sea level)?  | BACK TO TOP
Displayed altitudes are dependent on the data source for the position data. FlightAware receives many different types of altitude data, including uncorrected pressure altitude, corrected pressure altitude, flight levels, GPS-based height above mean sea level (MSL) and GPS-based height above ellipsoid. Data received from the FAA or other air navigation service providers is typically MSL. ADS-B data is frequently height above ellipsoid but there are exceptions. In general, it is best to assume altitudes are uncorrected pressure altitudes (a variation of MSL). FlightAware does not display AGL altitudes.


https://www.flightaware.com/about/faq/#AGLorMSL

 



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Msg ID: 2803834 Oklahoma Crash +5/-10     
Author:Truth Teller
1/24/2024 1:35:05 PM

Reply to: 2803515

These accidents are voluntary. These HAA problems have already been solved in the 121 world, years if not decades ago and the only reason that the same solutions aren't used in HAA is because they cost too much so we continue to trade profits for lives. HAA needs two pilots, IFR, NVG, HTAWS with mandated escape maneuver, cat A operations, an aircraft that can carry it all, and an OCC that does flight planning and has joint authroity. And by the way, med crew won't be real flight crew until it requires an FAA certificate and training. Yep, it would take a AW139 sized aircraft to do it and would require a bunch of OCC personnel but it would also save almost all of these lives that continue to be lost for the same reasons, year after year. Until then, thoughts and prayers is about all that can be offered.



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Msg ID: 2803840 Oklahoma Crash +1/-4     
Author:wrong
1/24/2024 1:38:13 PM

Reply to: 2803834

helicopter operations, by their very nature, are much more dangerous than 121 ops. the big helicopters with 2 pilots and nvgs crash a lot, too. you can't compare the two in any meaningful way bro



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Msg ID: 2803851 Oklahoma Crash +0/-2     
Author:Anonymous
1/24/2024 1:47:09 PM

Reply to: 2803840

No mention of higher quality, better paid maintenance positions? Just checked yesterday and that program had job posting for mechanic? How long have they been without a mechanic? How many preflights were done by Pilot before a mechanic put eyes on? To many operators going without mechanics for weeks at a time... Time to pay these guys and have enough around to operate safely... God bless the crews and families!!!



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Msg ID: 2803895 Oklahoma Crash +0/-1     
Author:say wut
1/24/2024 2:55:34 PM

Reply to: 2803851

since when does a job posting mean nobody is there. since never



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Msg ID: 2803899 Oklahoma Crash +0/-2     
Author:lol
1/24/2024 3:27:12 PM

Reply to: 2803834

yeah, a whole bunch of OCC personnel and a big helicopter that can carry "it all" with 2 pilots and NVGs! equal no more accidents ohand med crews something something



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Msg ID: 2803910 Oklahoma Crash +2/-2     
Author:my idea
1/24/2024 4:39:54 PM

Reply to: 2803899

do all haa flights in 737s and it would cut way down on accidents. prove me wrong



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Msg ID: 2803921 Oklahoma Crash +1/-1     
Author:Wrong
1/24/2024 5:58:13 PM

Reply to: 2803910

Every scene flight landing would result in a crash.

 



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Msg ID: 2804061 Oklahoma Crash +0/-2     
Author:nothing gets past you
1/26/2024 1:14:56 PM

Reply to: 2803921

does it biff



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