Msg ID:
2803103 |
Law enforcement helicopters and floats for overwater +0/-1
|
Author:required single engine?
1/16/2024 10:52:06 AM
|
do law enforcement single engine helicopters require floats when operating over water if the aircaft has an airworthiness certificate? say a md530 or bh407?
Yes, they can operate under public use, but if in controlled airspace (or)if they have an airworthiness certificate do they fall under part 91 and require floats?
thanks for real answers. any reference would be great. |
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803105 |
Law enforcement helicopters and floats for overwater +1/-2
|
Author:I know
1/16/2024 12:26:03 PM
Reply to: 2803103
|
it depends on how far from land they go. Back mid-late 80's PHI had an S76A stationed at Pitin Bay Island. THe were aloud to remove floats for wt savings & they were operating for Cleveland Medical Center. 1st S76 Medevac because of the oil glut & they were parked not making any revunue, |
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803106 |
Law enforcement helicopters and floats for overwater +1/-1
|
Author:whoa
1/16/2024 12:43:46 PM
Reply to: 2803105
|
so there you go. lol |
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803116 |
Law enforcement helicopters and floats for overwater +1/-0
|
Author:PFD
1/16/2024 3:05:06 PM
Reply to: 2803103
|
Does any other certificated single engine helicopter require floats while flying extended over water? |
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803117 |
Law enforcement helicopters and floats for overwater +0/-1
|
Author:At least it wom't catch fire
1/16/2024 3:22:34 PM
Reply to: 2803116
|
And the plastic gas tank works as a great float! |
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803120 |
Yes, they are required public use or civil use outside operational +1/-0
|
Author:glide distance from shore
1/16/2024 3:52:03 PM
Reply to: 2803116
|
prove me wrong |
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803124 |
Prove you wrong? Gladly! +4/-0
|
Author:Rule Reader
1/16/2024 4:34:08 PM
Reply to: 2803120
|
91.205 [B] [12] spells it out:
If the aircraft is operated for hire over water and beyond power-off gliding distance from shore, approved flotation gear readily available to each occupant and, unless the aircraft is operating under part 121 of this subchapter, at least one pyrotechnic signaling device. As used in this section, “shore” means that area of the land adjacent to the water which is above the high water mark and excludes land areas which are intermittently under water.
Obviously talking about civil aircraft with a Standard Category airworthiness certificate. Note the words, "for hire." Student instruction, surveys and photo flights and such. If that is the case and you're beyond gliding distance, then each occupant must "have available" a flotation device. They don't have to wear it, just have it available. Privately-owned aircraft (like a PD agency) are not bound by 91.205, and operators of those aircraft can do whatever they want. |
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803127 |
Yes, they are required public use or civil use outside operational +1/-0
|
Author:LEO's
1/16/2024 5:29:37 PM
Reply to: 2803120
|
don't operate under 14 CFR 91 |
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803132 |
91.205 [B] [12] spells it out: +0/-0
|
Author:olderendirt
1/16/2024 6:14:16 PM
Reply to: 2803127
|
91.205 [B] [12] spells it out:
If the aircraft is operated for hire over water and beyond power-off gliding distance from shore, approved flotation gear readily available to each occupant and, unless the aircraft is operating under part 121 of this subchapter, at least one pyrotechnic signaling device. As used in this section, “shore” means that area of the land adjacent to the water which is above the high water mark and excludes land areas which are intermittently under water.
As mentioned in another post, public use are not required top follow Part 135. |
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803136 |
If compensated, they are for “hire” so let’s say they are paid by the city +0/-0
|
Author:For a Bay Area or Beach Patrol
1/16/2024 7:35:11 PM
Reply to: 2803132
|
Now are they required to comply with part 91? |
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803143 |
Then they'd also need an FAA operator's certificate or common carrier +0/-0
|
Author:certificate. But, alas....
1/16/2024 9:17:02 PM
Reply to: 2803136
|
... they are public operators and don't ahve one. So, they'd better not be for-hire! |
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803159 |
Nor are they civil aircraft as contemplated under the applicability (NT) +0/-0
|
Author:subsection 91.205(a)
1/17/2024 8:43:50 AM
Reply to: 2803132
|
|
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803152 |
Yes, they are required public use or civil use outside operational +0/-1
|
Author:Anonymous
1/17/2024 6:24:41 AM
Reply to: 2803127
|
They most certainly do. |
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803160 |
Read the applicability subpart to see if it says +1/-0
|
Author:"... no civil aircraft..."
1/17/2024 8:46:13 AM
Reply to: 2803120
|
Public aircraft are not Civil aircraft! Therefore, the regulation you cite is NOT APPLICABLE to public aircraft! |
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803233 |
Using you logic The US Navy And Coast Guard +0/-0
|
Author: Let's Go Brandon
1/17/2024 9:09:40 PM
Reply to: 2803120
|
would also require floats.
They're DEFINITELY public use.... |
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803154 |
you only need vests for 91.205. no floats (NT) +2/-0
|
Author:required.
1/17/2024 7:43:09 AM
Reply to: 2803103
|
|
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803157 |
Part 91.205(a): applies to civil aircraft, not public +1/-0
|
Author:Public operators are not required
1/17/2024 8:42:29 AM
Reply to: 2803154
|
to have floatation devices, but the FAA highly recommends it! |
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803165 |
Law enforcement helicopters and floats for overwater +4/-0
|
Author:The Rule Decoder
1/17/2024 10:05:54 AM
Reply to: 2803103
|
As usual, a JH thread devolves into a bunch of misinformation from misinformed responders. What a surprise.
The original question was:
"do law enforcement single engine helicopters require floats when operating over water if the aircaft has an airworthiness certificate? say a md530 or bh407?
Yes, they can operate under public use, but if in controlled airspace (or)if they have an airworthiness certificate do they fall under part 91 and require floats?"
And the answer is "No." Aircraft emergency floats are not required at all under FAR Part 91, period. It doesn't matter if they're "public use" or not. In fact, even if a PD, say, wasn't using the "public use" exemption, Part 91 does not require that anybody onboard a private aircraft have (or wear) a life vest/jacket. If you (or your company or organization) owns a single-engine helicopter, feel free to fly it as far out over the water as you like without having a single life vest/jacket on board. However! Here's the catch: If the aircraft is operating "for hire" (you can argue over what that means), then the occupants have to have available flotation devices. They don't have to wear them - just have them available. Again, the rules say nothing about the aircraft having emergency floats. |
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803167 |
not required for public aircraft regardless. An airworthiness certificate (NT) +0/-0
|
Author:does not make it a civil aircraft!
1/17/2024 10:16:38 AM
Reply to: 2803165
|
|
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803174 |
Then what have an airworthiness certificate? (NT) +0/-0
|
Author:What's the benefit for public use?
1/17/2024 11:40:55 AM
Reply to: 2803167
|
|
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803193 |
Look up and read AC91-91, it explains it! (NT) +0/-0
|
Author:Anonymous
1/17/2024 1:24:08 PM
Reply to: 2803174
|
|
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803217 |
floats are not reqiuired for any aircraft..... (NT) +1/-0
|
Author:you're welcome
1/17/2024 6:15:22 PM
Reply to: 2803103
|
|
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803237 |
So, what's section (d) of this FAR about? +0/-0
|
Author:Anonymous
1/17/2024 9:47:27 PM
Reply to: 2803217
|
§ 135.183 Performance requirements: Land aircraft operated over water.
No person may operate a land aircraft carrying passengers over water unless—
(a) It is operated at an altitude that allows it to reach land in the case of engine failure;
(b) It is necessary for takeoff or landing;
(c) It is a multiengine aircraft operated at a weight that will allow it to climb, with the critical engine inoperative, at least 50 feet a minute, at an altitude of 1,000 feet above the surface; or
(d) It is a helicopter equipped with helicopter flotation devices.
|
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803238 |
So, what's section (d) of this FAR about? +0/-0
|
Author:PFD
1/17/2024 10:39:40 PM
Reply to: 2803237
|
Understand the difference between PART 135 & 91.... In fact, understand the difference between all of the regulation, especially the ones that apply to you! |
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803246 |
Different Parts? Well, I'm not the one who said "floats are not required +0/-0
|
Author:for any aircraft"!
1/18/2024 7:10:46 AM
Reply to: 2803238
|
Apparently, they are required depending on the FAR PART you are operating with! |
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803281 |
Different Parts? Well, I'm not the one who said "floats are not required +0/-0
|
Author:nice try...
1/18/2024 2:30:14 PM
Reply to: 2803246
|
do law enforcement single engine helicopters require floats when operating over water if the aircaft has an airworthiness certificate? say a md530 or bh407?
Yes, they can operate under public use, but if in controlled airspace (or)if they have an airworthiness certificate do they fall under part 91 and require floats?
thanks for real answers. any reference would be great.
Reading is FUNdamental.
You're welcome. |
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803287 |
But, you are still incorrect then! +0/-0
|
Author:Public operators are not required
1/18/2024 4:09:54 PM
Reply to: 2803281
|
to have floats on their aircraft, or PFDs for their passengers, or an airworthiness certificate for their aircraft, or licenses for their pilots, or medical certificates either..... |
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803321 |
Different Parts? Well, I'm not the one who said "floats are not required +0/-0
|
Author:PFD
1/18/2024 11:15:57 PM
Reply to: 2803281
|
The highlighted statment is the question posed by the OP, not a correct statment of fact.... Nice try -nice try.... |
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803382 |
Have you been drinking... (NT) +0/-0
|
Author:or are you just retarded?
1/19/2024 2:33:11 PM
Reply to: 2803321
|
|
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803372 |
Law enforcement helicopters and floats for overwater +0/-0
|
Author:Get the
1/19/2024 1:36:16 PM
Reply to: 2803103
|
Life jackets, make them accessible, brief all concerned prior to flight, and stick on the floats. Not necessarily only a legal issue, more an ethical one. Too much weight? Upgrade the helicopter type. |
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
Msg ID:
2803381 |
Law enforcement helicopters and floats for overwater +0/-0
|
Author:Flipper PD?
1/19/2024 2:31:10 PM
Reply to: 2803103
|
What PD agency is extended over water so much that they would need floats? |
|
Reply Return-To-Index
|
|