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Msg ID: 2803103 Law enforcement helicopters and floats for overwater +0/-1     
Author:required single engine?
1/16/2024 10:52:06 AM

do law enforcement single engine helicopters require floats when operating over water if the aircaft has an airworthiness certificate? say a md530 or bh407? 

Yes, they can operate under public use, but if in controlled airspace (or)if they have an airworthiness certificate do they fall under part 91 and require floats?

thanks for real answers. any reference would be great.



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Msg ID: 2803105 Law enforcement helicopters and floats for overwater +1/-2     
Author:I know
1/16/2024 12:26:03 PM

Reply to: 2803103

it depends on how far from land they go. Back mid-late 80's PHI had an S76A stationed at Pitin Bay Island. THe were aloud to remove floats for wt savings & they were operating for Cleveland Medical Center. 1st S76 Medevac  because of the oil glut & they were parked not making any revunue,



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Msg ID: 2803106 Law enforcement helicopters and floats for overwater +1/-1     
Author:whoa
1/16/2024 12:43:46 PM

Reply to: 2803105

so there you go. lol



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Msg ID: 2803116 Law enforcement helicopters and floats for overwater +1/-0     
Author:PFD
1/16/2024 3:05:06 PM

Reply to: 2803103

Does any other certificated single engine helicopter require floats while flying extended over water? 



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Msg ID: 2803117 Law enforcement helicopters and floats for overwater +0/-1     
Author:At least it wom't catch fire
1/16/2024 3:22:34 PM

Reply to: 2803116

And the plastic gas tank works as a great float!



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Msg ID: 2803120 Yes, they are required public use or civil use outside operational  +1/-0     
Author:glide distance from shore
1/16/2024 3:52:03 PM

Reply to: 2803116

prove me wrong



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Msg ID: 2803124 Prove you wrong? Gladly! +4/-0     
Author:Rule Reader
1/16/2024 4:34:08 PM

Reply to: 2803120

91.205 [B] [12] spells it out:

If the aircraft is operated for hire over water and beyond power-off gliding distance from shore, approved flotation gear readily available to each occupant and, unless the aircraft is operating under part 121 of this subchapter, at least one pyrotechnic signaling device. As used in this section, “shore” means that area of the land adjacent to the water which is above the high water mark and excludes land areas which are intermittently under water.

Obviously talking about civil aircraft with a Standard Category airworthiness certificate. Note the words, "for hire." Student instruction, surveys and photo flights and such.  If that is the case and you're beyond gliding distance, then each occupant must "have available" a flotation device. They don't have to wear it, just have it available. Privately-owned aircraft (like a PD agency) are not bound by 91.205, and operators of those aircraft can do whatever they want.



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Msg ID: 2803127 Yes, they are required public use or civil use outside operational  +1/-0     
Author:LEO's
1/16/2024 5:29:37 PM

Reply to: 2803120

don't operate under 14 CFR 91 



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Msg ID: 2803132 91.205 [B] [12] spells it out: +0/-0     
Author:olderendirt
1/16/2024 6:14:16 PM

Reply to: 2803127

91.205 [B] [12] spells it out:

If the aircraft is operated for hire over water and beyond power-off gliding distance from shore, approved flotation gear readily available to each occupant and, unless the aircraft is operating under part 121 of this subchapter, at least one pyrotechnic signaling device. As used in this section, “shore” means that area of the land adjacent to the water which is above the high water mark and excludes land areas which are intermittently under water.

As mentioned in another post, public use are not required top follow Part 135.



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Msg ID: 2803136 If compensated, they are for “hire” so let’s say they are paid by the city  +0/-0     
Author:For a Bay Area or Beach Patrol
1/16/2024 7:35:11 PM

Reply to: 2803132

Now are they required to comply with part 91?



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Msg ID: 2803143 Then they'd also need an FAA operator's certificate or common carrier +0/-0     
Author:certificate. But, alas....
1/16/2024 9:17:02 PM

Reply to: 2803136

... they are public operators and don't ahve one.   So, they'd better not be for-hire!



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Msg ID: 2803159 Nor are they civil aircraft as contemplated under the applicability (NT) +0/-0     
Author:subsection 91.205(a)
1/17/2024 8:43:50 AM

Reply to: 2803132


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Msg ID: 2803152 Yes, they are required public use or civil use outside operational  +0/-1     
Author:Anonymous
1/17/2024 6:24:41 AM

Reply to: 2803127

They most certainly do.  



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Msg ID: 2803160 Read the applicability subpart to see if it says  +1/-0     
Author:"... no civil aircraft..."
1/17/2024 8:46:13 AM

Reply to: 2803120

Public aircraft are not Civil aircraft!   Therefore, the regulation you cite is NOT APPLICABLE to public aircraft!



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Msg ID: 2803233 Using you logic The US Navy And Coast Guard +0/-0     
Author: Let's Go Brandon
1/17/2024 9:09:40 PM

Reply to: 2803120

would also require floats.

They're DEFINITELY public use....



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Msg ID: 2803154 you only need vests for 91.205. no floats (NT) +2/-0     
Author:required.
1/17/2024 7:43:09 AM

Reply to: 2803103


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Msg ID: 2803157 Part 91.205(a): applies to civil aircraft, not public +1/-0     
Author:Public operators are not required
1/17/2024 8:42:29 AM

Reply to: 2803154

to have floatation devices, but the FAA highly recommends it!



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Msg ID: 2803165 Law enforcement helicopters and floats for overwater +4/-0     
Author:The Rule Decoder
1/17/2024 10:05:54 AM

Reply to: 2803103

As usual, a JH thread devolves into a bunch of misinformation from misinformed responders. What a surprise.

The original question was:

"do law enforcement single engine helicopters require floats when operating over water if the aircaft has an airworthiness certificate? say a md530 or bh407? 

Yes, they can operate under public use, but if in controlled airspace (or)if they have an airworthiness certificate do they fall under part 91 and require floats?"

And the answer is "No."  Aircraft emergency floats are not required at all under FAR Part 91, period. It doesn't matter if they're "public use" or not.  In fact, even if a PD, say, wasn't using the "public use" exemption, Part 91 does not require that anybody onboard a private aircraft have (or wear) a life vest/jacket. If you (or your company or organization) owns a single-engine helicopter, feel free to fly it as far out over the water as you like without having a single life vest/jacket on board.  However! Here's the catch: If the aircraft is operating "for hire" (you can argue over what that means), then the occupants have to have available flotation devices. They don't have to wear them - just have them available. Again, the rules say nothing about the aircraft having emergency floats.



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Msg ID: 2803167 not required for public aircraft regardless. An airworthiness certificate (NT) +0/-0     
Author:does not make it a civil aircraft!
1/17/2024 10:16:38 AM

Reply to: 2803165


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Msg ID: 2803174 Then what have an airworthiness certificate? (NT) +0/-0     
Author:What's the benefit for public use?
1/17/2024 11:40:55 AM

Reply to: 2803167


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Msg ID: 2803193 Look up and read AC91-91, it explains it! (NT) +0/-0     
Author:Anonymous
1/17/2024 1:24:08 PM

Reply to: 2803174


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Msg ID: 2803217 floats are not reqiuired for any aircraft..... (NT) +1/-0     
Author:you're welcome
1/17/2024 6:15:22 PM

Reply to: 2803103


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Msg ID: 2803237 So, what's section (d) of this FAR about? +0/-0     
Author:Anonymous
1/17/2024 9:47:27 PM

Reply to: 2803217

§ 135.183 Performance requirements: Land aircraft operated over water.

No person may operate a land aircraft carrying passengers over water unless—

(a) It is operated at an altitude that allows it to reach land in the case of engine failure;

(b) It is necessary for takeoff or landing;

(c) It is a multiengine aircraft operated at a weight that will allow it to climb, with the critical engine inoperative, at least 50 feet a minute, at an altitude of 1,000 feet above the surface; or

(d) It is a helicopter equipped with helicopter flotation devices.



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Msg ID: 2803238 So, what's section (d) of this FAR about? +0/-0     
Author:PFD
1/17/2024 10:39:40 PM

Reply to: 2803237

Understand the difference between PART 135 & 91.... In fact, understand the difference between all of the regulation, especially the ones that apply to you!



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Msg ID: 2803246 Different Parts? Well, I'm not the one who said "floats are not required +0/-0     
Author:for any aircraft"!
1/18/2024 7:10:46 AM

Reply to: 2803238

Apparently, they are required depending on the FAR PART you are operating with!



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Msg ID: 2803281 Different Parts? Well, I'm not the one who said "floats are not required +0/-0     
Author:nice try...
1/18/2024 2:30:14 PM

Reply to: 2803246

do law enforcement single engine helicopters require floats when operating over water if the aircaft has an airworthiness certificate? say a md530 or bh407? 

Yes, they can operate under public use, but if in controlled airspace (or)if they have an airworthiness certificate do they fall under part 91 and require floats?

thanks for real answers. any reference would be great.

 

Reading is FUNdamental. 

You're welcome.



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Msg ID: 2803287 But, you are still incorrect then! +0/-0     
Author:Public operators are not required
1/18/2024 4:09:54 PM

Reply to: 2803281

to have floats on their aircraft, or PFDs for their passengers, or an airworthiness certificate for their aircraft, or licenses for their pilots, or medical certificates either.....



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Msg ID: 2803321 Different Parts? Well, I'm not the one who said "floats are not required +0/-0     
Author:PFD
1/18/2024 11:15:57 PM

Reply to: 2803281

The highlighted statment is the question posed by the OP, not a correct statment of fact....  Nice try -nice try.... 



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Msg ID: 2803382 Have you been drinking... (NT) +0/-0     
Author:or are you just retarded?
1/19/2024 2:33:11 PM

Reply to: 2803321


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Msg ID: 2803372 Law enforcement helicopters and floats for overwater +0/-0     
Author:Get the
1/19/2024 1:36:16 PM

Reply to: 2803103

Life jackets, make them accessible, brief all concerned prior to flight, and stick on the floats.  Not necessarily only a legal issue, more an ethical one.  Too much weight?  Upgrade the helicopter type.



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Msg ID: 2803381 Law enforcement helicopters and floats for overwater +0/-0     
Author:Flipper PD?
1/19/2024 2:31:10 PM

Reply to: 2803103

What PD agency is extended over water so much that they would need floats? 



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