With the latest Mercy Flight report out on the heels of the Duke Energy report, what's the deal with being able to chop your tail off so easily in a 429?  Is there a design error with inadequate flapping clearance to the boom?  I've never heard of a helicopter that could so easily do it with just aft cyclic and down collective...

You must be a young fella. 407's were doing it when they came out first.  Changes were made and it has happened again.

the 407 problem was with the tail rotor, not the main rotor

Son, I had 20 years in this outfit when your idea of a good time was sitting in front of the television, watching bugs bunny, and gnawing on your fudgesickle.

I remember the days before the pedal stop actuator well.  If you think limiting the tail rotor travel in cruise would help prevent low speed main rotor to tailboom contact in 407s, then I think you should call Bell and share your wisdom for all of our sakes.

429s rather

tell me about all the accidents where the mr struck the tail in a 407 back in the old days and I still think watching cartoons eating ice cream is a good time. 

8/12/2017, Virginia State Police.  Same reason, VRS.

You're welcome.

link?

they received the 1st 407's off the line when they first came out...a lot of changes to them was from them including the pedal stop and also the longer T/R shaft....and yeah the issue was hitting the winglets more than anything but that was due to aggressive flying of course and too much aft Cyclic on auto's and fast approaches....The reports are out there and those pilots know who they are...I think the PHI AMG just did one in Texas recently doing auto's...didn't chop it off but clipped it hard and winglets

what a stupid thing to say. w tf is that even supposed to mean? why do you always say that? do you think it give some kind of legitimacy to your stupid, know-nothing posts? so tell me about an accident in a 407 where the TB got chopped other than an auto or practice auto. I'll be waiting on the couch watching cartoons and eating fudge bars. 

Alot of black magic happening everywhere, 1986 design, even with years of field experience,  M/R blowback disc...  The T/R will hit the boom if the driveshaft breaks even with the longer shaft installed.

why wouldn't they know who they are. lol. so tell me about an accident in a 407 where the TB got chopped other than an auto or practice auto. I'll be waiting on the couch watching cartoons and eating fudge bars. 

8/12/2017, Virginia State Police.  Same reason, VRS.

You're welcome.

that did not cause the accident. the tail boom chop was incidental. try again.

"Given the proximity of the aft section of the tailboom to the main wreckage site, the main rotor would likely have contacted the tailboom shortly before ground impact and not during the onset of the right yaw."

"why wouldn't they know who they are. lol. so tell me about an accident in a 407 where the TB got chopped other than an auto or practice auto. I'll be waiting on the couch watching cartoons and eating fudge bars."

I just did.  Enjoy the fudge bars.

the caused the accident. you can't though.

if you knew what knew what the f**k you were talking about.  Even a slight clue would help.

You are quite a tap dancer though.

so turns out this whole 407 chopping off its tail is not a thing after all. that's what I'm talking about bro

Here ya go....be careful and adjust the cyclic balance spring if you remove dual controls!

NTSB Identification: ERA12TA538
14 CFR Public Use
Accident occurred Friday, August 31, 2012 in Bath, NY
Probable Cause Approval Date: 06/11/2014
Aircraft: BELL 407, registration: N11SP
Injuries: 1 Minor.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
The pilot's improper recovery from an in-flight upset, which resulted in the main rotor striking and separating the tail boom. Contributing to the accident was the helicopter manufacturer's failure to warn pilots of unanticipated and unequal aft cyclic pressure in the single-pilot configured helicopter compared to the dual-pilot configured helicopter, which resulted in the in-flight upset when the pilot momentarily let go of the cyclic control.

you will probably chop the tail boom in any helicopter when your spinning around and pointed straight down at the ground

The contact of the main rotor and subsequent loss of the tail boom is why the helicopter was spinning around and pointing to the ground. So yes...a Bell 407 has had main rotor to tail boom contact during a flight profile not associated with training or an autororation. 

After hearing a fed describe his training in VRS, where it became a test of bravery to see how long you would hold the maneuver before recovering, it really has me wondering where this industry has gone sideways. You have a bunch of wannabes out there acting like OEM test pilots doing non-standard training without the experience to understand the ramifications of going too far. It's pretty obvious there's a big disconnect in the training community, yet you still have people risking life and limb because they attended a 30 minute class or webcast on VRS recovery techniques.

Stupid is as stupid does.

to teach recovery techniques makes as much sense as cutting an artery to teach the use of a tourniquet.

the ancient S55 with a straight tail tail chopping experiences.  Sikorsky subsequently canted the tail downwards to pretty much avoid the problem.  Fun machine but one to be very careful with.