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Msg ID: 2798483 AS350B3e Starts when Bat turned on +1/-3     
Author:User
11/10/2023 8:47:19 PM

Currently troubleshooting an aircraft that is stuck in a pretty remote place.

 After landing and shutting down he heard very loud static over the ICS, then the VEMD and Garmin 500 screens went dim.

 He turned off the battery and then turned it back on and the start sequence engaged, even though the switch was in the off position. He duplicated it a couple time and recycled the Starter switch a few times...problem persists.

 He did let it light off on one of the attempts and had strange VEMD displays and a GOV light came on...not sure if yellow or red.

 I do know that this aircraft just a day or two ago had a new Starter Gen put in for troubleshooting, then swapped back to the older one. This aircraft for the last couple years has had very loud static over ICS during the start sequence up until about 12% N1 then it stops. Static only heard on battery starts. If using Start Stick or APU no static is heard.

We have a mechanic headed his way with a new Start Gen but any advice from the collective wisdom here would be greatly appreciated.

 Thanks in advance.

robbie ranger, three fiddy, HEMS sucks, sabine ufos...blah blah 



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Msg ID: 2798484 AS350B3e Starts when Bat turned on +0/-1     
Author:the guru
11/10/2023 8:53:30 PM

Reply to: 2798483

trying pulling a circuit breaker. whatever one you want.



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Msg ID: 2798485 AS350B3e Starts when Bat turned on +1/-3     
Author:OB
11/10/2023 8:55:38 PM

Reply to: 2798483

Call Mike Crossland at Helicopter Services Inc. (281-370-4354) at KDWH Airport in Houston! He is the finest A-Star Maintenancre Technician I have ever dealt with!



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Msg ID: 2798492 AS350B3e Starts when Bat turned on +2/-4     
Author:Gee guy
11/10/2023 10:00:30 PM

Reply to: 2798485

Maybe let the mechanic do his own troubleshooting before you bring someone else into the mix. It's called professional courteset. 



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Msg ID: 2798493 AS350B3e Starts when Bat turned on +0/-1     
Author:GG
11/10/2023 10:18:00 PM

Reply to: 2798492

Courtesy dang autocorrect 



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Msg ID: 2798498 AS350B3e Starts when Bat turned on +0/-1     
Author:JW
11/10/2023 11:59:23 PM

Reply to: 2798485

OB, I think you just gave your experienced AStar mechani's phone number to a flight nurse. 



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Msg ID: 2798487 AS350B3e Starts when Bat turned on +0/-1     
Author:your helicopter is possessed
11/10/2023 9:12:12 PM

Reply to: 2798483

call helicopter exorcist



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Msg ID: 2798494 AS350B3e Starts when Bat turned on +2/-1     
Author:A few options
11/10/2023 10:19:25 PM

Reply to: 2798487

 could be starter switch or starter relay , I have had the oppposite of where I couldnt shut down . There are two relays that are same and your mechanic can swap them to trouble shoot.. please let us know what he found . I am like you , I know most just leave it to maint but I too like to find out if others have had similar problems which can be very helpful to your mechanic especially if he is new to airframe or industry , which is not unusual in our line of work, plus good mechanics like it when you show interest in their profession , not to be a critic just curiosity.



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Msg ID: 2798497 To the OP +0/-4     
Author:JW
11/10/2023 11:15:58 PM

Reply to: 2798483

just wondering here, by your post, it is evident you are not the PIC. You aren't even on site. What is exactly is your relationship with this event? Would you be a dispatcher or flight nurse? Why would you be going outside the company looking for trouble shooting ideas on an anonymous website before the mechanic has even shown up? 
Something right isn't adding up here



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Msg ID: 2798502 To the OP +0/-1     
Author:check out
11/11/2023 6:55:23 AM

Reply to: 2798497

sherlock holmes dork on the case



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Msg ID: 2798504 To the OP +0/-1     
Author:the nurse
11/11/2023 7:16:24 AM

Reply to: 2798502

yeah, a nurse is on a helicopter forum trying to figure out how to fix a broken helicopter



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Msg ID: 2798507 To the OP +0/-1     
Author:snoopy
11/11/2023 7:44:17 AM

Reply to: 2798504

Wouldn't be the first time



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Msg ID: 2798508 To the OP +1/-1     
Author:so who
11/11/2023 7:59:40 AM

Reply to: 2798507

gives a sh*t who's asking 



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Msg ID: 2798519 To the OP +0/-1     
Author:snoopy
11/11/2023 8:21:06 AM

Reply to: 2798508

looks like the nurse/mechanic showed up. lol, justnursehelicopers!



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Msg ID: 2798566 To the OP +0/-1     
Author:Pilot 34
11/11/2023 1:31:39 PM

Reply to: 2798502

Sounds like somebody is worried about his company finding this thread. Too late sport.



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Msg ID: 2798528 AS350B3e Starts when Bat turned on +0/-1     
Author:Anonymous
11/11/2023 8:58:59 AM

Reply to: 2798483

This the same aircraft that was posted earlier on about static on battery starts? 



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Msg ID: 2798539 AS350B3e Starts when Bat turned on +2/-1     
Author:Bell
11/11/2023 10:16:53 AM

Reply to: 2798483

I will admit off the bat that I am a Bell person, and not familiar with Astars...so bear that in mind. I had the same thing happen on a 206L3 once...it was a bad start relay..the thing had gotten stuck in the closed position, so every time the battery was turned on it would engage the starter.

Unless the system is totally different, I would look to change out the start relay (or Astar equivalent)...don't know about that aircraft, but on the Bell I believe it was interchangeable with the Ext Pwr relay if you are remote and lacking parts.



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Msg ID: 2798547 AS350B3e Starts when Bat turned on +1/-1     
Author:You are correct
11/11/2023 11:26:14 AM

Reply to: 2798539

Same thing on astars and ec130 . two relays, start gen relay can be swapped to check and often you can tap on it  and you will probably get it to work until you can get a new one. As for static etc clean the ground wire on starter gen .

hope the murse is reading this ... lol



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Msg ID: 2798572 AS350B3e Starts when Bat turned on +6/-0     
Author:PIC of incident helicopter
11/11/2023 2:55:01 PM

Reply to: 2798547

OK it was solved after being stuck in field for 9 hours.  Here is what happened and the resolution:

After about 2 hours of uneventful flight time (with 9 normal starts/shutdowns), I landed at remote camp about 60 miles from main base.  Went to idle, and after 30 seconds, I turned the engine swith off.  Approximately 5-10 seconds later, I got loud static in my helmet (radios off already at this point)...after another 10 seconds or so, all screens started flickering and then dimmed slowly as if the battery was dying.  The Garmin 500 screens were particularly interesting...they produced colors I've not seen before...very dark purple shades...almost akin to what I've seen some TVs or phone screens do when the screens have been smashed and the backlight fails. 

Anyway, at this point, all screens were blank and the panel showed no signs of life, despite the master switch being on.  I turned the switch off...waited a few seconds and then back on.  A few caution lights illuminated, and one of the Garmin screens flickered bright white briefly...and after about 2 seconds, the caution lights dimmed and died same as before.  I turned the master battery switch off....got out my phone to get video of this happening so I could share with Mx.  This time when I turne the master battery switch back on, the engine immediate started turning.  It repeated this behavior every time the master switch was turned on. 

Mx came out and began troubleshooting.  In the end, it was the "K3 Starter Contactor" shown below.  There are two relays that are easily swappable (K1/2)...but the K3-7 relays are not.  Each of those has 4 soldered wires that had to be dealt with. 

Yes, we tried banging on the relay, and many other things were checked while waiting for the replacement to arrive. 

As soon as the K3 relay was removed and the contacts could be seen...there was obvious signs of arcing and the contactor "bar" (not sure the exact term...but the metal bar that the relay actually moves to make contact in order to close the circuit) was mechanically stuck in the closed position (effectively siezed in the closed position).  Mx finished installing a new K3 relay and that solved the problem. 

Remaining mystery is the strange behavior of the VEMD and other screens immediately after the initial shutdown.  However, once everything was reassembled, the engine started normally and I flew back to base. 

Thanks to all for the suggestions.  And special thanks to the 2 mechs who came out and dealt with it in single digit temps.  For those who asked, the original poster is the base manager here (yes...also a pilot) who was in contact with us in the field via satphone. 

Cheers everybody. 

 



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Msg ID: 2798575 AS350B3e Starts when Bat turned on +1/-4     
Author:Pilot 34
11/11/2023 3:20:45 PM

Reply to: 2798572

Your base manager should have waited and let the mechanics show up and do their troubleshooting first before jumping on a chat room board looking for advice. It doesn't look good for your company, your customer and the lack of confidence in their ability to do the work they are paid to do.  In short, keep it in house. 



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Msg ID: 2798576 AS350B3e Starts when Bat turned on +1/-1     
Author:PIC of incident helicopter
11/11/2023 3:54:54 PM

Reply to: 2798575

I respectfully disagree.  We are all here trying to help each other (except for the flame posts of course). 

There is nothing wrong with asking others for help.  Same as consulting any Mx manual, tech rep, etc. If I'm stuck in the field with threatening Wx, or racing nightfall, I'm going to take advantage of any resource available. 

Happy landings. 



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Msg ID: 2798577 AS350B3e Starts when Bat turned on +1/-2     
Author:Pilot 34
11/11/2023 4:21:31 PM

Reply to: 2798576

So you are telling us your Company has no communication system in place, inhouse, to assist with field maintenance issues, so he went to this place first? Sorry, I dont believe that. There is no shame asking for help AFTER maintenance support has arrived and cannot resolve the issue, but to jump on a website soliticing advice from anonymous posters before your mechanics even unpack their tools, is not the way it should be done. 

Sorry your Company works that way. I can tell you the overall majority of them do not.

To end it here, Im glad the aircraft is repaired and back in service. 



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Msg ID: 2798580 AS350B3e Starts when Bat turned on +3/-2     
Author:PIC of incident helicopter
11/11/2023 4:50:27 PM

Reply to: 2798577

Sigh...and long exhale.  No one's name was used.  No Company name shared.  No tail number given.  Nobody is embarrassed, shamed, pride hurt, or whatever. 

I would imagine the vast majority of users/moderators/creators of this forum all agree that using this place as an actual resource to help each other and share information is much more preferable to the all too frequent posts that do little more than to beat each other up about going to the airlines or HEMS or Unions or Politics, etc. 

I guarantee you that even your Mx crewmembers also reach out to their peers for advice/suggestions about whatever issues they are working on. 



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Msg ID: 2798613 AS350B3e Starts when Bat turned on +0/-2     
Author:Euro mech
11/11/2023 11:40:37 PM

Reply to: 2798577

Pilot 34, 

Why don’t you go mop the kitchen and stop being Karen?



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Msg ID: 2798646 AS350B3e Starts when Bat turned on +0/-1     
Author:U got
11/12/2023 10:19:58 AM

Reply to: 2798483

a ground or inflight fire in the making.  If you all know this and fly the thing and the Feds figure it out it won't be just the operator's big one in the wringer, it'll be the pilots as well.



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Msg ID: 2798703 AS350B3e Starts when Bat turned on +0/-1     
Author:I find it amusing
11/12/2023 7:16:08 PM

Reply to: 2798646

all these dumbasses that think you're going to have the faa on you for something like this. 



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