Msg ID:
2790943 |
Charleston Accident +5/-1
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Author:Ef
8/16/2023 3:58:31 PM
Reply to: 2790942
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He did NOT have a total T/R Failure, he had control issue, yes that can be considered a"T/R Failure " it had 15 hrs TT since Mx, so most likely the nut wasn't TQ'd, safetied or even installed. That is NOT Pilot error DB. Wonder what scheduled Mx was previously preformed or was it un-scheduled Mx? Either way he walked away!!! |
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Msg ID:
2790944 |
Stupid hiring practices +8/-1
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Author:LEO Larry
8/16/2023 3:59:14 PM
Reply to: 2790939
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That's what LEO departments get when pushing to train up ground officers as pilots instead of hiring experienced pilots to do the job (and just have a LEO in the other seat).
Stuck pedal while in cruise flight was no reason to crash a helicopter. Watch the video, he tried to come in and auto (to the grass no less) from a low approach angle when he was at an airfield where he could have run it on easy-peasy. |
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Msg ID:
2790947 |
Stupid hiring practices +0/-0
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Author:EXACTLY
8/16/2023 4:31:03 PM
Reply to: 2790944
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Pay a bit now or pay a lot later |
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Msg ID:
2790949 |
Stupid hiring practices +6/-0
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Author:Same Damn Thing Happened to Me
8/16/2023 4:34:41 PM
Reply to: 2790944
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Before attempting to land, find that sweetspot where airspeed and power will keep the nose straight, then land it like a fixed-wing. We trained for this often in the Army. |
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Msg ID:
2790951 |
Stupid hiring practices +7/-1
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Author:oldNtired
8/16/2023 4:40:04 PM
Reply to: 2790944
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How easy it is to know how to solve other people's problems from the armchair. How many of you Quarterbacks have delt with a stuck pedal, done a REAL run on with little or no control or how many of you have ever had a real emergency. Love the comradery and the shared experiences on this forum. Just to finish the sarcasm, being old and getting a medic alert bracelet, I had put on it " DO NOT TRANSPORT BY HELICOPTER !" |
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Msg ID:
2790964 |
Stupid hiring practices +4/-0
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Author:You’re an idiot
8/16/2023 7:26:48 PM
Reply to: 2790944
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The pilot was a very experienced aviator. You should do some research before spouting off, showing what a complete tool you are. |
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Msg ID:
2790981 |
Right... +1/-5
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Author:Anonymous
8/16/2023 8:48:08 PM
Reply to: 2790964
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An experienced aviator would NEVER attempt a run-on landing... just slow down and try a hovering auto to the grass when it feels like it may start to yaw too far.
Run-ons are one of the safest maneuvers in any Bell series helicopter; especially if you're annually proficient (sim or live). If not proficient, just play around while at altitude to get a feel for what to do and rehearse it before setting up for an approach.
If your type of helicopter has serious torque and a spin developed too quickly to react (139, 60, 109, etc) then do an Auto (from any altitude). |
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Msg ID:
2790952 |
Charleston Accident +3/-0
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Author:Mech
8/16/2023 4:42:34 PM
Reply to: 2790939
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How is any flight control assembly (hardware) installed and not have a second set of eyes, even if it is the pilot looking it over and checking it for security before flight? |
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Msg ID:
2790953 |
Charleston Accident +3/-0
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Author:It's
8/16/2023 4:54:34 PM
Reply to: 2790952
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Called "MeatBall Maintenance" & it happens unfortunately too often. Fortunately it gets caught before an accident like this! |
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Msg ID:
2790956 |
Charleston Accident +4/-0
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Author:Mech
8/16/2023 5:01:41 PM
Reply to: 2790953
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Even in todays helicopter world, no mechanic should ever get so comfortable with his work that he won't ask someone else to look at it when he is done. |
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Msg ID:
2790957 |
Charleston Accident +0/-0
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Author:AMC Guy
8/16/2023 5:03:10 PM
Reply to: 2790952
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I forget what it was called but AMC required the pilot to look over the mechanic's work when they were done before accepting the aircraft as airworthy.
I'm sure every company has a similar policy, right? |
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Msg ID:
2790958 |
Charleston Accident +1/-0
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Author:Mech
8/16/2023 5:04:46 PM
Reply to: 2790957
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I don't know about every company, but the majority of companies I know of require it with a logbook entry. |
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Msg ID:
2790959 |
Charleston Accident +1/-0
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Author:Mech
8/16/2023 5:08:45 PM
Reply to: 2790958
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Actually, I should have said every company I know of. |
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Msg ID:
2790960 |
Charleston Accident +3/-1
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Author:CYA
8/16/2023 5:10:56 PM
Reply to: 2790957
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CYA my friend |
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Msg ID:
2790977 |
Charleston Accident +1/-0
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Author:AMC Guy
8/16/2023 8:38:13 PM
Reply to: 2790960
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Ah, that was it. "Conform Your Aircraft". Stupid, but easy to remember it as just like the CYA we all know. |
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Msg ID:
2790966 |
Charleston Accident +2/-0
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Author:Mtc’r
8/16/2023 8:10:00 PM
Reply to: 2790957
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Called a compulsory check. Mech would explaine/show the pilot or second mech what they did. That person would visually look at it and the area around it for any defects such as missing hardware, tools, rags, ect. Then he would make an entry in the log stating "Compulsory Check Completed" along with name and number. |
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Msg ID:
2790971 |
Charleston Accident +0/-4
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Author:Anonymous
8/16/2023 8:20:54 PM
Reply to: 2790957
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cuz the pilot knows what he's looking at, right? didn't sleep through that module in a&p school, right? knows what right looks like...right? what was that torqued to?
just another pilot signature blindly accepting responsibility so the cheapskates don't need another mechanic on the payroll. |
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Msg ID:
2790982 |
Charleston Accident +2/-0
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Author:Anonymous
8/16/2023 9:05:15 PM
Reply to: 2790971
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Good Lord, the stupidity of this place never ceases the amaze me and you are a perfect example of it. |
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Msg ID:
2790988 |
Charleston Accident +2/-0
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Author:MTC’r
8/16/2023 9:28:33 PM
Reply to: 2790971
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That's your view and I disagree. It's all about a second set of eyes looking at the work done and hopefully catching errors before they snowball into something catastrophic, kind of why you do a pre-flight. Remember it's your @$$ up there. |
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Msg ID:
2791071 |
Charleston Accident +0/-3
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Author:Anonymous
8/17/2023 4:38:50 PM
Reply to: 2790988
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if there's a need for a second set of eyes, it should be a qualified set of eyes. your pilot preflight training (condition and security) does not prepare you to QC an A&P's work. might as well just send the nurse out there to look for tools and rags.
stop covering for your cheapskate employer. |
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Msg ID:
2791072 |
Charleston Accident +1/-0
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Author:Cotter pin
8/17/2023 4:45:11 PM
Reply to: 2791071
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The subject is not about a major component change. If you can't see that a bolt was installed with a cotter pin such as a pitch link assembly, then I wonder what else you are not qualified to do. |
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Msg ID:
2790962 |
Charleston Accident +2/-2
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Author:Question:
8/16/2023 6:33:44 PM
Reply to: 2790939
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Aren't Public Use agencies exempted from most rules regarding aircraft operations? |
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Msg ID:
2790978 |
Charleston Accident (NT) +0/-0
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Author:Mech
8/16/2023 8:38:38 PM
Reply to: 2790962
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Msg ID:
2790991 |
No. (NT) +0/-1
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Author:You're welcome.
8/16/2023 9:37:47 PM
Reply to: 2790962
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Msg ID:
2791003 |
Charleston Accident +2/-0
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Author:Former LEO and HEMS
8/17/2023 12:10:16 AM
Reply to: 2790962
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Yes there is a Public Use exemption but very few LE agencies use it. As someone noted, very easy to arm chair QB an event that happens to someone else. We train but the real thing can be dramatically different depending on the emergency. We don't know what happened so lets wait for the investigation. |
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Msg ID:
2791011 |
Charleston Accident +1/-2
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Author:OP
8/17/2023 2:58:11 AM
Reply to: 2791003
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I have been in the Helicopter Busines in all aspects for many years! I would say that one of the finest Maintenance Operations is the Houston Police Department (HPD) facility in Houston at the Hobby Airport! Visited there many times with a lot of friends working there! After 18 years of flying in the GOM I would say none of the five Companies I flew for were anywhere maintenance wise as good as HPD! |
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Msg ID:
2791017 |
Charleston Accident +1/-1
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Author:NJ
8/17/2023 6:53:44 AM
Reply to: 2791011
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Sp Aviation unit retired. Great Mx when I was there. Been out for long time, still proficient (even W/ AW139's😢 ) |
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Msg ID:
2791036 |
Couldn't hold a job, eh? +1/-0
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Author:Job Hopper
8/17/2023 10:08:09 AM
Reply to: 2791011
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"After 18 years of flying in the GOM I would say none of the five Companies I flew for..." |
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Msg ID:
2791029 |
Charleston Accident +0/-2
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Author:Just Me
8/17/2023 9:26:46 AM
Reply to: 2790962
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I was told many years ago after run in with NYPD as long as A/C has N# it must comply with FAR's! |
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Msg ID:
2791035 |
Charleston Accident +0/-1
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Author:and who
8/17/2023 10:05:11 AM
Reply to: 2791029
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told you that. that would be important bro |
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Msg ID:
2791056 |
Charleston Accident +0/-1
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Author:civi/sworn
8/17/2023 3:03:17 PM
Reply to: 2791035
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The difference betwen hiring civilian or training sworn is the new pilot. You can hire an experienced pilot or train one from the ground up. As a civilian pilot, i haven't been around any LE agencies that cut new pilots loose with 150 hrs depsite the rhetoirc otherwise. Not saying it doesn't happen but I havn't seen it. The ones I have any knowledge of require significant time with an experienced pilot prior to be released as the sole pilot. The problem with civilian pilots is we are generally very transient (not all but I would say the majority). Often times we go where the $$ is or bigger aircraft ($$). The advantage for an LE agency with training their own is they retain those they train for a career due to pensions (which isn't what they sued to be). Once a LE sworn guy gets some experience, whats the difference in a 1,500 hr or 3,000 hr sworn pilot v the same civilian pilot except a badge/gun? There are good sworn pilots and bad sworn pilots and good civilian pilots and bad civilian pilots. |
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Msg ID:
2791067 |
Charleston Accident +2/-0
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Author:Anonymous
8/17/2023 4:10:34 PM
Reply to: 2791056
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Pardon my lack of vocabulary, but what is a "sworn pilot"? |
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Msg ID:
2791077 |
Charleston Accident +0/-0
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Author:a sworn pilot
8/17/2023 6:05:32 PM
Reply to: 2791067
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is a flying cop |
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Msg ID:
2791079 |
Charleston Accident +0/-0
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Author:Anonymous
8/17/2023 7:09:20 PM
Reply to: 2791077
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Sworn must be a code word they use to identify their job, but why? Even though they might be public use are the pilots not FAA certificated and either civilian or military trained? |
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Msg ID:
2791092 |
Charleston Accident +1/-0
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Author:Retired
8/17/2023 9:49:51 PM
Reply to: 2791079
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I swear that I've seen plenty of sworn pilots, learning stuck pedals at the factory school.
Does Charleston go cheap with training ? Just wondering if they do recurrent, or if they save the training slots for the field grade staff who never really fly.
It looks like Charleston bought it from Palm Beach, FL. Sheriff Dept. |
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Msg ID:
2791099 |
Charleston Accident +0/-1
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Author:sworn or civilian
8/18/2023 5:21:15 AM
Reply to: 2791079
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Sworn generally doesnt have anything to do with aviation just whether the employee has a badge/gun. In the LE aviation world, its not a "code word". Its simply to identify if pilots have a badge/gun or not. And yes LE sworn pilots are FAA certificated despite being public use. |
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Msg ID:
2791134 |
Charleston Accident +0/-0
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Author:oldNtired
8/18/2023 4:15:49 PM
Reply to: 2791099
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Sworn means you are swearing your allegiance to something. In this case a law enforcement agency. You are pledging that you promise to uphold certain codes of conduct and faithfulness for yourself and brothers in arms. A trait that is becoming rare because of lack of willing participants in the newer generations. Just sayin ! |
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Msg ID:
2791166 |
Charleston Accident +1/-0
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Author:Shalom
8/19/2023 11:14:19 AM
Reply to: 2791134
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They got that way watchng us. The good ones got screwed and the screw ups moved up. |
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