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Msg ID: 2783795 Fire Helicopter Choice  +1/-1     
Author:Van Winkle
5/26/2023 4:55:41 PM

Your company.  What would be your choice of a Type I, Type II and Type III helicopter.    



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Msg ID: 2783820 Fire Helicopter Choice  +0/-0     
Author:Fire driver
5/26/2023 10:15:14 PM

Reply to: 2783795

I'll Bite. 

Type one- Hawk

Type two- 205/210

Type three- 407HP



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Msg ID: 2783827 Fire Helicopter Choice  +2/-0     
Author:Rain maker
5/26/2023 11:38:56 PM

Reply to: 2783820
Sk-64 B-210 AS 350 B3e


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Msg ID: 2783829 Fire Helicopter Choice  +3/-0     
Author:MATOC
5/27/2023 12:30:09 AM

Reply to: 2783827

CRANE

412 EPX

H145 D3



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Msg ID: 2783840 Fire Helicopter Choice  +1/-0     
Author:H145 D3
5/27/2023 8:46:21 AM

Reply to: 2783829

would fall into the T2 category...it is not a T3...max gross is over 7000 lb



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Msg ID: 2783885 Fire Helicopter Choice  +0/-0     
Author:Yea?
5/27/2023 9:40:10 PM

Reply to: 2783840

Then what meets the type 3 for MATOC? 



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Msg ID: 2783904 Fire Helicopter Choice  +0/-0     
Author:Not many
5/28/2023 8:08:10 AM

Reply to: 2783885

BH429, A109, H135...under 7000 lb MGW, still in production, newer than 2000:

Helicopter Type      Aircraft Certified Internal Gross Weight
Type 1                   Over 12,501 pounds

Type 2                   7,001 to 12,501 pounds

Type 3                   Up to 7,000 pounds

EXHIBIT 1 - MODERN HELICOPTER AIRCRAFT REQUIREMENTS
(a) Type 3

(1) Powerplant: Twin-turbine engine.
(2) Airspeed: 120 knots VNE at 5000 feet pressure altitude and 30°C at maximum gross weight.
(3) Seating: Utility seating configuration for six or more insured passenger seats not including pilot
but including copilot seat in an aircraft if certificated for single pilot operation.
(4) Landing Gear: Skid type or wheeled.
(5) Certifications: Standard airworthiness certificate. Certificated as a 14 CFR Part 27 Normal
Category or Part 29 Transport category aircraft that is certified for One Engine Inoperative
operation, or a part 21.29 certified aircraft meeting the same standard. If not manufactured in the
United States, only those aircraft certificated by a country the United States has a bilateral
agreement with that incorporates reciprocal airworthiness certification of civil aeronautical
products
(6) Systems: Integrated Aircraft Health and Usage Monitoring System, i.e., engine trend monitor,
and vibration monitor systems in accordance with Attachment 30.
(7) Fuel Tanks: Crash Resistant Fuel System meeting at least partial compliance with Part
27.952 Amendment level 30 or 29.952 Amendment level 35. See SAIB SW-17-31R2
(or latest revision) for latest list of eligible aircraft
(8) Date of Manufacture: 2000 - Present.
(9) Aircraft in Current Production: The aircraft model derivative offered must be in current
production, meaning the aircraft manufacturer is currently producing complete aircraft of the
same model derivative offered.



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Msg ID: 2783831 Fire Helicopter Choice  +3/-1     
Author:Lol
5/27/2023 12:37:34 AM

Reply to: 2783820

Hawk will oversaturate the market and each of them will be cutting each others throats to try and make a buck.



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Msg ID: 2783844 Fire Helicopter Choice  +1/-0     
Author:gringo
5/27/2023 9:55:34 AM

Reply to: 2783831

Some lower impact logging practices would go a long way! Beware of the Fire Industrial complex...



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Msg ID: 2783845 Fire Helicopter Choice  +2/-0     
Author:gringo
5/27/2023 10:07:13 AM

Reply to: 2783844

But if I had to choose.

Chinook + lowest $ per gallon/ - maintenance pig

205++BLR/Fast fin (until the Eagle single gets the same charts) + reliable / - somewhat slow 

no opinion on the T3 probably B3e 



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Msg ID: 2784110 Fire Helicopter Choice  +1/-0     
Author:Easy...
5/31/2023 9:46:53 AM

Reply to: 2783845

Crane

212

407HP

If it ain't broke, don't make up a problem to fix it. 



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Msg ID: 2784221 Fire Helicopter Choice  +2/-0     
Author:212? Really
6/1/2023 6:20:15 PM

Reply to: 2784110

Thats About the worst performing type 2 you can get....shows that you have no idea what's good or not.



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Msg ID: 2784248 Fire Helicopter Choice  +0/-0     
Author:....
6/2/2023 10:08:15 AM

Reply to: 2784221

What other type 2 twin is better? Once they approve the twin engine requirement the 210/205/Eagle Singles will be SOL. And I don't see many operators spending the money for a new 412. 



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Msg ID: 2784255 Fire Helicopter Choice  +0/-0     
Author:Well for starts
6/2/2023 11:47:43 AM

Reply to: 2784248

Ec145d3 is better than the 212, and it can lift more.



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Msg ID: 2784288 Fire Helicopter Choice  +0/-0     
Author:Well...
6/2/2023 5:16:25 PM

Reply to: 2784255

What operator will spend the money on one and then have money left to outfit it for fire? Until the Feds triple their daily rate it's not going to happen. Don't forget the fact that there aren't even enough 145's available for purchase if it were even financially feasible. 



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Msg ID: 2784322 Fire Helicopter Choice  +0/-0     
Author:It is
6/3/2023 11:42:29 AM

Reply to: 2784288

When MaTOC happens, the 145 will be easy worth the purchase on a 10 year award. The 205/212s will be history on the new awards.



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