fly airplanes. If you want to fly helicopters, fly airplanes. You'll thank me later.

I have zero interest in flying airplanes.  Never have never will. 

Air Force flight school starts every 2-3 Weeks just saying. 

Where you may get to select from the HH-60, UH-1N, or the new MH-139 once you complete UPT-H.  Just saying. 

you do not want to do that 

Yes becuase who wants to fly a helicopter for 20 years, earn a six figure salary, free healthcare, 30 days paid vaction per year, educationAl benefits you can pass to your kids, and then be able to retire when they are 45 with a pension.  

why do that when you can fly airplanes and get all that plus triple the income when you get out. good point

Because the Air Force isn't a wish granting factory or a training organization for future  (air)bus drivers.  You go to serve and if it's flying a fighter, helicopter, or drone, that is what you are there to do, operate a weapons system. 

the pension isn't worth as much now. It's now the "blended retirement system", no longer the highest 3 years system.  not worth 20 years anymore. Exactly why the Air Force is bleeding pilots to the airlines as soon as initial commitments are up. 

a 400 hour 172 pipeline pilot makes $23 an hour and a 500 powerline pilot makes a $150k a year which is proof helicopter pilots make more money for the same size aircraft. lol

You keep proving my point.  A 4,000 hour airplane pilot flying a Cessna 172 is still probably going to make $23 an hour.

When airline pilots got furloughed and took jobs flying a Piper Navajo or Towing Gliders no one paid them extra for their airline experience like a helicopter utility pilot would get paid for longline or firefighting experience.  LOL all you want but why is this concept beyond you?  pilots are typically paid by the size of the aircraft they fly and helicopter pilots get paid more than fixed wing pilots when flying similarly sized aircraft.  

A PC-12 is about the same size and weight as an S-76.  Captains pay is around $65 an hour with a 75 hour guarantee for a Part 135 passenger job.  That is $4875 a month.  Anyone flying an S-76 Part 135 making that?  

probably lots of 4000 hour 172 pilots out there lol and that Pilatus is a short stay low timer gig. the 76 is as far as your going to go in helicopters, takes longer to get there. not even debatable, airplanes are the way. 

No concept what you are talking about.  
When airlines furlough lots of high time guys take flying jobs flying light aircraft.  If you try to go to another airline job while on furlough you lose your seniority so guys take whatever flying jobs they can get.  I did flight instruction at a college until finally going back to helicopters.  Last furloughs were during COVID, so if you think it won't happen because of pilot shortages in reality you are a merger or stock market crash from a furlough and possibly flying a Cessna 150.  

A PC-12 is not a short timer gig really.  It's a 135 gig.  Plenty of airline pilots have gone from 121 to 135 typically for quality of life.  Guys who work 135 often aspire to fly corporate so they establish themselves in the 135 world.  Corporate flight departments prefer 135 experience over 121. 

If you believe S-76 is as far as you can go, maybe you have sold yourself short. 

a platapus is most likely 91 but what the hell difference does it make. now were onto furloughs lol. give it up poser. you're running out of things to pretend you know something about. 

Planesense, Tradewinds, and Botique Air all fly PC-12's, and each has nearly 200 pilots.  Pay for an FO is below $60,000 a year.  With regional pay being more competitive as of late and the 1,500 hour requirement, those jobs are just the kinds of positions pilots who predominately have rotor time get offered. 

There are also a lot of FO jobs in Phenoms, King Air 350's, Honda Jets, and CJ's where pay is lower than even Part 135 turbine single engine helicopter jobs.

I assume this being a helicopter pilot site that the people here are established as helicopter pilots and contemplating a career change.  Currently airplanes afford better prospects for a young person, or someone changing careers from sometching non aviatiin related. But if you are an established mid career helicopter pilot with a GOM or HEMS job, as I assume many of the people here are, it's going to be a pretty big sacrifice in regards to quality of life for a long time to go FO at a regional.  Part 135 flying is going to likely come with a pretty hefty pay cut.  Corporate helicopter flying, overseas contract, and probably much of the utility sector, you probably won't see that kind of money until you make Captain at a major airline.  Don't know why people what to crucify someone for telling them the truth about what sacrifices they may have to make and some of the expenses they may not have considered.  I for example at the time thought employee parking at the airport meant airline employees could park there.  I found out you can't get a badge unless you are specifically domiciled at that base, even if your airline has a domicile there, if you aren't assigned there, can't park in the employee lot.  If I didnt want to pay for the long term lot, I had to get my wife to drive me three hours round trip if available.  I wound up paying for parking monthly at a private lot near the airport where I could take public transportation the rest of the way.  No one tells you this stuff.  Nothing is different now.  You will commute sooner or later and commuting incurs expenses.  I didn't fly for American Eagle back then but they most often gave new hires LaGuardia or Puerto Rico.  The most difficult bases for commuting to the guys that could least afford it. 

S-76 and AW-139 jobs are no longer just for high timers.  One company in the GOM was sending pilots for upgrade after only a few months in a 407.  May not stay that way, but that is what is going on now. 

Discussing the realities of a job is not being negative.  To make big money in airplanes means you have to be away from home, a lot.  Quality of life can't help but suffer.  That has always been the case with airline pilots, no sense in anyone denying it.  There aren't many one day out and back trips in a 777 or a Gulfstream.  A lot of helicopter jobs have a person home every day such as HEMS or Corporate, or for extended periods, such as 7 days, 14 Days such as the GOM, or 6 weeks for jobs in Africa and the Middle East.   Utility is a different story but those guys typically get more money for being away extended periods.  

Did you go fixed wing?  Any surprises along the way?

is going to make $23 an hour. maybe you think the layed off 92 captain will get a 120 grand a year dropping golf balls out of an r-22. get it? 

What's your point?  Pilots get furloughed.  You think fixed wing pilots don't get furloughed.  Like it's been what two years since the  COVID furloughsat the airlines.  Forgotten already? Express Jet declared bankruptcy less than a year ago.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/23/tech/expressjet-bankruptcy/index.html

Yes actually, I am getting paid more than that each month. About $3,400 a pay period. I am assuming your total there is per month. And for a VFR aircraft. Just depends on time employed and who you work for.

Airlines don't have pensions anymore.  Pension funds were raided by the Carl Ihcahns, Frank Lorenzo's and Leo Mullins of the world.  Airline pilots are in the same 401k boat as everyone else.  Part of the reason pilots want to keep increasing the mandatory retirement age. 

we are one reply away from "but the crash pads, the crash pads!" lol

Wouldn't keep mentioning if you guys actually addressed it, but you choose to ignore that reality Where $600 a month comes off the top, or younhave to pay out of pocket for a hotel room.  

401k, yes.  Same boat?  Not even close.  

my airline puts in 16% of my gross pay without me having to contribute a dime.  Delta just raised their employer contributio to 18%. 

18% of 200k is 36k... of 300k it's 54k.  Per year.  

what do RW companies contribute, 6-8%?  

RW 6-8% 🤣 , bro ole P H I Airmed wishes they'd get that. 

as for furloughs, don't worry pops we will come work your base as a float pilot then toss RW to the side like before and go back to making real money again when called back up.  RW is the dual rated pilots ugly side chick. 

speaking of Delta, look who Leo Mullin is and then ponder where your airlines retirement scheme can go in a very short amount of time.  You have no idea where your retirement will be in 20 or 30 years. Not that any Pilot job is much better. FedEx/Flying Tigers, USAir, TWA are all good example of what can happen.  

"For the sake of the company, please accept that we are dropping the 401k match to 4%.  We have to, please forgive us".  Same song and dance played like a broken record.

Anyway.  If you want a secure your retirement, after 30 years of ups and downs in this business, probably a government job is your best bet.

you should wander back over to APC and check out what FO pay is at netjets. then tell me again about the great SIC pay in a helicopter. there are probably 25,000 FO airplane spots between corporate, fractional, regionals and the majors. how many SIC helicopter jobs in the US? a few hundred, tops AND they don't pay anywhere near what the airplane pilots are getting. you can keep your podunk middle of nowhere ems base and the swamp trailer in the GOM. I know...but crash pads and airline pilots going back to a 150!!! 

There are also a lot fewer helicopter pilots.  Let me know how you like it when you get that job as an FO at NetJets.  

so you've only been wrong about, exaggerated or downplayed every single thing you've said about being an airplane pilot. that's surprising. I guess it's possible you have never been an airplane or helicopter pilot and you've been making all this up as you go along🙂

Weird some of you guys keep making this accusation.  If I was hitting it hard and trying to sell you flight training, airline interview prep or was an airline recruiter telling "you will be a Captain in nine months" that would be one thing, but what do I personally gain by asking you to consider all aspects of an airline career beyond a pay scale you probably don't understand?

What you call "downplaying" are the realities.  I am accentuating the realities of life as an airline pilot as I experienced them and the people I know that are still in the industry continue to experience. So what have I been wrong about?  I have backed up everything I said, and linked or referred everything I have been saying.  

The theme seems to be is I give you industry norms like commuting, and you think they are exaggerations.  You guys come back in one instance telling me you make $180,000 flying a 500 if that suits your argument, then saying airline pilots make three times as much as helicopter pilots, but with no context, as if every fixed wing pilot is a senior 777 captain at American.  How about the guy who said a 21 year old makes double what a helicopter pilot makes?  Anyone call that guy on the carpet?  Do you know of many 21 year old airline pilots? 

More Truths:

Getting your fixed wing ratings will take longer and cost more than you thought.

I did not have to do this but by every account the  ATP-CTP course will annoy if you not make you angry, especially if you already have an ATP-H.

You will apply for many jobs and never hear anything back from the company and others will call you seemingly before you even hit send on your computer. 

You will probably underprepared for your first airline interview then over prepare for the next. 

Nobody cares if you flew helicopters except other helicopter pilots.  Someone will tell you IFR in a helicopter must be easy since you can just fly over the airport and descend out of the clouds.

Even if your instrument skills are sharp airline training is hard.  The sheer volume of procedural information, flows, and callouts are difficult for almost everyone.  Don't be surprised when people in your new hire class disappear, just make sure it isn't you. 

If you are not constantly studying in training and IOE you are wrong. 

Expect your IOE to be delayed.  With all the hiring, training departments are backed up on doing IOE.  

Seniority is everything.  When you are new and the bids come out plan on reserve lines with little flying for about a year. 

You will likely commute.  A good roller bag is critical.  Discuss with other pilots, it's more important than you think. 

Upgrade will take longer than you thought, and if you go the regional route, you will be at a regional longer than you thought.

Someone supposedly calculated that when you send in your resume to a major airline when they have a hiring window your chance of getting called for an interview are abou 1 in 4,000. 

"accentuating the realities of things I read online because I have never done this"

Have I triggered you into questioning your possible decision to pursue an airline career?

I harp on commuting because I don't know a single airline pilot that did not commute sometime in their career and when people quit airline flying it is the primary reason they do so. 

It is not a drawback it's part of the job.  It's sort of like flying EMS where the med crew could be seen as a drawback, but are part of the job.  

The costs and impacts of commuting on your quality of life should be thoroughly understood and considered especially if you own a home or young children.  It is not like commuting to the GOM where you go to the same place and are gone the same amount of time.  You often have to add a travel day in either side of your commute which will be unpaid. If you only have two days off between trips you don't go home in those cases. You wind up paying for a hotel room.  Consider the realties of commuting before you spend a bunch of money for your MEL. 

If you could get over your anger and accusations happy to provide some insight. 

Again you have no idea what you are talking about.  If you become an airline pilot and can't fit all your stuff for a four day trip, or your cheap bag falls apart, it is the first thing you will ask about. "what kind of bag should I get?" "what kind of bag do you have?" Just be greatful with EFB's you don't have to roll around a chart bag full of Jepp's anymore.  

Some airlines allow backpacks while others don't.  Hats are more or less becoming optional so that is one less thing you may have to worry about.  

I think we're done here.

Check that Net Jets payscale again.

The $89,000 FO pay is based on working 228 in a year. 

The FO pay is $65,000 if you work 180 days.  

That is also likely days away from home.  So to get SPIFR HEMS money as an FO  you have to be away from home 228 days, and work an additional 43 days beyond your 7 and 7.  What would your pay be if you did an additional 43 shifts flying EMS?

And we are not talking about sleeping and surfing the web. we are talking about you being strapped in a seat and living out of a suitcase.  

I took this off the APC Net Jets pay thread. Decide for yourself.

I may be crazy, but I will brave the sharks and take a stab at this again. Unfortunately there are a lot of factors outside of your control - fleet assignment, training delays, the scheduling gods, maintenance, etc. However, I have found that most people end up pretty close to their fleet averages for the year, even when it feels like you never fly (been there!). As we all know, the problem with averages is there will be those above and below. The bigger problem is that being an outlier or even just off the average, especially below, is that it is mostly due to dumb luck. I will try to give a data based answer as much as possible to give a range, vs my specific data point. Sorry in advance for the long post and hopefully it makes some sense. TLDR: I the believe data the backs up a reasonable year 1 average to be $101,740 to $128,147.

2023 Year 1 Base Wages are as follows - 
7/7 & CC60 - $70,781
8/6 - $82,106
CC52 - $67,242 (And yes, new hires have been successful in bidding this schedule depending on fleet)
CC72 - $86,353
CC76 - $92,015

Based on the most recent data from the Union on fleet averages - The lowest new hire fleet is averaging 2.88 hours per day. The highest new hire fleet is averaging 3.65 hours per day. The average for all the new hire fleets is 3.26 hours per day.

*This is where it gets a little subjective in how to apply these data points* This is my recommendation for estimating first year pay (disclaimer: it may only be worth what you paid for it) -

Others have said, expect 3 months on the training pay schedule (CC72). I think that is a fair average. Some may be longer, some may be shorter. After that you can choose your desired schedule (from a list of available options) until the next bid. Starting the first bid after completion of IOE, you bid like everyone else. When calculating hour many tours you will be able to earn FDP, I would suggest planning on only the tours after the completion of the training schedule to give you a safer answer. So for example on the 7/7, I would recommend only planning on 18 tours or 126 days (26 yearly tours - 6 missed tours while on the CC76 - 1 tour vacation - 1 tour recurrent). The CC schedules make this part more complicated. For days available to earn FDP, I would take total days worked in two bid periods minus 14 days (vacation and recurrent). So for the CC76, I would recommend estimating 138 days (152 days for two bid periods of the CC76 - 7 days for vacation - 7 days for recurrent). Since the CC schedules tour lengths are not set, it is not as easy to determine how many tours you will work. But, I think it is fair to estimate an average of 3 tours per month, or 25 tours your first year (27 tours for 9 months - 1 tour vacation - 1 tour recurrent).

Base pay = (CC72 Base x .25) + (Desired Schedule x .75)
FDP = ((Days available to earn FDP x fleet average per day) - (Tours worked x 10)) x 148

Example for 7/7 and the lowest FDP fleet
(86353 x .25) + (70781 x .75)
21588.25 + 53085.75
Base pay = $74,674

((126 x 2.88) - (18 x 10)) x 148
(362.88 - 180) x 148
FDP = $27,066.24

Total Year 1 = $101,740

Example for CC76 and highest FDP fleet
(86353 x .25) + (92015 x .75)
21588.25 + 69011.25
Base pay = $90,599.5

((138 x 3.65) - (24 x 10)) x 148
(503.7 - 250) x 148
FDP = $37,547.6

Total Year 1 = $128,147.1

All of this to say, I think a reasonable year one range would be between $101,740 to $128,147. You can plug and play with the various schedules and FDP values to match your expected situation. Common knowledge is to plan only on your guaranteed base pay. For which you can still use these calculations to figure out base pay dependent on schedule choice, just ignore the FDP portion. However, if you are trying to determine what you might expect with FDP, I would suggest planning on getting assigned to the lowest FDP fleet.

Before everyone jumps on "well but what about" - Yes, some people make more than this and some people make less. As I said before, there will be outliers and those who are above or below these averages. That's the nature of the game here/averages, some things you just have no control over. Yes, if it takes longer to begin IOE that will reduce the number of tours available to make FDP, thus reducing total year 1 compensation. On the flip side, you will stay on the CC72 pay longer, which could raise your base pay if you intend on picking a lesser schedule after IOE.Yes, I did not factor in overnight, NFAD, holiday, after midnights, extended days, etc. These would all add to total year one compensation, but these are even more elusive to tie down good data backed average for how much you are going to get. Yes, you do not take home 100% of the FDP pay, 1/3 of your FDP will go straight to your 401k. That will be deducted before it ever hits your bank account in addition to all your other taxes/deductions. Yes, these fleet averages change, and the next round of data we may see a decrease. All you can do is make as educated decision as you can with the data available. Yes, Netjets compensation is hard to understand. 18 months here and I'm still learning how some of the soft money is calculated. I'd love to see it simplified in future contracts and less dependent on luck. Finally, no, I am not saying you are guaranteed to break $100,00 in your first year.

That highlights a significant difference between most helicopter jobs and most fixed wing jobs.  Fixed wing jobs, including airlines, tend to pay by the flight hour.  Most helicopter jobs like HEMS pay a salary whether you fly or not.  

The difficulty with airline jobs comes in the reserve/seniority system.  New hires are often not senior enough to hold a line so they get reserve where they only get paid minimum guarantee.  It has gottten much better in the last three years.  Minimum guarantee could be as low as 45 hours a month, now it's commonly 75 hours a month, if not more.  Reserve commonly lasts 9 months to year.  The first actual lines new pilots can usually bid are pretty lousy, lots of nights, weekends, holidays, and might be only 40-50 hours, but at least you know your schedule which is nice after essentially being on call for a year. 

Netjets has been considered a fairly good company to work for, at least for the past five years or so. They have had some issues with getting behind in  training and upgrades that I think still persist, but on the whole, probably not a bad choice.  Back in my day, they were not a good stepping stone to a major airline since they all wanted Part 121 experience, but that has probably changed. I also knew of a few NetJets guys that made the jump into airline flying but then went back to NetJets.  

pilot making lol

Stuck flying a V-22? You will train in T-6's, King Air's, and TH-119's, be in AFSOC which has the fastest promotion times and when you get out a six figure job awaits you at Bell, Leonardo, or the FAA.  

6 figure. Big whoop

So you make a seven figure salary in aviation?

everyone on the internet makes big, I mean BIG, money.  They also bench press 500lbs and are married to swimsuit models.

Are you new here?

the CP thing.  Hated it. Stay a line pilot if you enjoy sanity.

figure job?  By the time an aspiring TR pilot gets out those job openings will be all but filled.