iwas a check airman for an HAA operator for over 10 years. I checked VFR and IFR pilots.  It never ceased to amaze me when one of the younger pilots would just lose it without the GPS. There were a number of our pilotsmthat claimed the aircraft was not IFR legal if the GPS was inop.  

When did VOR navigation become difficult?  Why can’t you identify a fix by the intersection of two VOR radials?  Flying a DME arc is not magic.  

I spent much time treaching these skills.  Come on folks GPS, although very nice to use, is not necessarily needed for IFR flight.  Learn your trade and be a true professional.

You couldn't cut it on the line so ya became a check airman. Neat 

About your ability to use old tech. Get with the program gramps or go stand in your screen door yelling at the kids to stay off your grass.

The farm OP has literally zero actual SPIFR. Maybe some sim which doesn't count but at any rate just another old burn out that has nothing to contribute to real world flying.

You would lose that bet smart ass.  I have more SPIFR and IFR time then you will ever think of getting.

you would realize, just like everyone else on the planet, spending a bunch of time and money training on something nobody uses is a waste of both.

FuqO

Has been retard thinks hes cool cuz he knows how to use ADF. Maybe the real problem is you dont know how to use the new systems...

sure. Can’t use new systems. What crap.  Talk to folks on the Air France that flew into ocean.  Sorry, they died. Could not use plain old airmanship.  GPS QUITS.  Professional pilots that can’t use all installed equipment.  Really!  You have become button pushers.

sure VOR and ADF nav is old and not as easy as GPS but it works.  How many of you new kids can fly needle/ball/airspeed?

if the gps quits, good chance you will fly into the ocean! gps does not quit and it's ALL button pushing bro. even the vor.

Sounds more like you may not know how GPS works.  VOR approaches are going away, and very quickly.  Why don't you focus your efforts on showing us all how it's done to improving the understanding of GPS to the pilots you train and check?  I am not sure why you think spinning a knob is more noble and takes more skill than pressing a button, becuase it is not just pressing a button, it's pressing the right button.  Do you know how to check RAIM, verify RNP, make VNAV corrections for temperature, or what a PRN is?  Those are all ways to help determine or improve determ of your postion.  All can do with a VOR is check it's Morse code and look at the TO-FROM flag.  It's pretty simplistic and inaccurate.  

I think your wasting your time , they know it all , thank you for trying 

Hmmm... I wasn't good with VOR stuff back in 1988. I waant good LORAN either. I'm kinda good with GPS so if it's broken I'm not going IFR or VRF.

 Now then I got to watch my storys then get a seniors plate at CraCoker Barrel before dropping some knock ofor Viaaaaagra I saw on TV

Ground based Navaids are being decommissioned at a rapid pace.  Fewer and fewer airports have VOR approaches, much less DME arcs.  The US is even behind the rest of the world where RNP and GLS approaches are becoming the norm.  If you are checking people they should understand PBN, RAIM, WAAS, LPV approaches, and RNP, not ways to fix intersections with archaic 1950's radio equipment.  Time to join the rest of the world here in the 21st century.  

when they get rid of all the vor's and then every pilot will be ruined and airmanship as we know it, shall cease to exist. 

going to happen.  GPS is too vulnerable.  Don't think so?  Think again.

VOR navigation and approaches? Probably not. Your GOM probably doesn't even alllow IFR without at least one GPS working. 

Yours?

we do some training but the checkride is always ILS and GPS approaches. why spend a bunch of time training and checking on something you don't do. the OP moans about nobody being proficient on VOR's, but it just isn't practical. 

today I'm flying into KXYZ. should I do the GPS approach with vectors or should I do the VOR DME arc approach which will take 15 longer? let me ask the guy who says he's a check airman that always spells it checkairman 

You get a GPS RAIM failure, if the DME arc is the only available approach, that's what you'll do. Do we use it a lot? no, but it's a skillset you should be competent with.

what you'll probably do is switch nav sources and just get vectors to final instead of messing around with the arc.

Maybe 10 years ago, but we have have WAAS now and soon more airports will have LAAS.  I fly out of the Northeast and airports like Tetrrboro in NJ removed all their VOR approaches.  Many fully IFR capable aircraft don't even have a DME receiver and use a TSO certified GPS to provide DME. People aren't going to use VOR approaches as a backup since, like NDB's, they won't exist anymore.  

Teterboro, and quite a few airports are going to RNP AR. Those that don't have it, or are not authorized will get last priority for approach clearance. Half the guys on the thread don't even know what RAIM is without looking it up.

don't be mad bro

https://www.boldmethod.com/blog/quizzes/2023/04/see-how-much-you-know-about-vors-with-these-questions/

Know about the cone of confusion but can't figure out how to put coordinates into GPS. 

What a contribution your quiz was.

would know check airman is two words and that nobody uses vor approaches anymore lol

Check air man dik head 

It is amusing that giving one's opinion generates such strident replies from those who know it all and will put up with no questioning.  Someone once said "Arogance is the shield of incompetence."

Those who cant do teach. 

also stop patting yourself on the back DB

You 

what's a VOR

It's amusing that a check airman wants to evaluate pilots by 30 year old standards instead of by the operational environment they will actually be in.  Let's be honest.  You probably struggle to find VOR approaches, DME Arcs, timed approaches, and procedure turns, and lament that you can't find any NDB approach anymore. But you seek them out to anyway perhaps to "teach the young folks a thing or two."  if you are desperately searching for VOR approaches and have to fly to an airport 30 or 40 miles away to do one on a check, that should tell you everything you need to know about where things are going.  Don't waste you time training and evaluating people on something they won't be able to do, likely in a few months.  All my tried and true VOR approaches like the VOR-A into KTEB are gone, and whatever ones you are using will soon be gone too.  The sooner you realize that, the more effective you will be as a check airman.  

flying in late sixties, retired 2020.  Lots of all of it to include ADF and MLS, DME Arc to finals, Back course Localizer, airborne radar approaches (overseas, not this chicken schnit stuff in GOM), TDH, PNR VFR/IFR sling load, 25 years ago doing LPV to a DA, and agree the GPS generation better stay away from high density airspace if they aren't ready, willing and capable of navigating by all that's available.

Tell us all about this IFR long line stuff. Sounds like you just dug yourself a major hole grandpa....all that experience and you're still a loon.

say long line.  English a third language squirt?

Think for a change!

dude flew dme arcs (to finals even, not just for fun!) and lpv approaches as career highlights, as every highly experienced pilot would lol how pitiful 

are of zero concern.

Yeah, I fly in multiple, class Bs everyday at work and what you said isn't true. A few years ago my operator was negative /G for a week due to someone dropping the ball with database updates and you could hear ATC groan every time that one of our aircraft checked on frequency. Our pilot proficiency was fine but VORTAC flying decreases deartire and arrival rates. The reality of the situation is that the only place ground based NAVAIDs are used is for ILS approaches. No one has time for that VORTAC or ADF BS in busy airspace, it's either GPS or ILS.

I remember when you could not get old pilots to use GPS or auto pilot correctly.

Time Distance and Heading, now that was when you know you could navigate

Some phenomenally naive millennials on here.  God help us all.

Just calling you old dumfux out when ya post retarded nonsense is all

You don't know the difference between deleted and banned. 

we would fly NDB approaches to minimums, and just keep going on down! Always found the runway, those that didn't were WEAK.

Sometimes we flew NDB approaches without NDBs!!

Hell, one night I flew one WITHOUT A HELICOPTER!!!

You kids today are SOFT!!!!

Just ask for vectors. 

GPS is ruining pilots, FADEC is runing pilots, autopilots are runing pilots, flight directors are ruining pilots, etc. I guess when instrument approaches changed from range approaches to NDB approaches there were pilot complaining about pilots who didn't want to fly ranges anymore.

If we have a way of reducing workloads we are safer. Obviously we have to be capable of using all sources of navigation and automation available to us. The automation doesn't ruin us, our laziness and inability to use all tools availalbe to us is the very thing that ruins us.

 Heaters and a/c are ruining pilots! In the old days we just wore big sheep skin coats. In the summer just a wife beater T shirt and un laced boots. Damn world is soft now.

like VFR/IFR.  Flew VFR to IFR standard de as much as possible, angle of bank, nav precision, fuel and time calculations etc.  Now fly GPS with the map out and a line on it to cross heck the GPS etc.  Used to be very important in nvthe world of LLRAN, not so much now with GPS, BUT, actually had a GPS cois nt backwards one night so, inaccuracies can happen.