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Msg ID: 2763671 Isn't "medical passenger" also known as "the patient"? (NT) +1/-2     
Author:Just asking
1/31/2023 11:14:59 AM


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Msg ID: 2763675 Isn't "medical passenger" also known as "the patient"? (NT) +1/-0     
Author:or " Baggage"
1/31/2023 11:46:08 AM

Reply to: 2763671


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Msg ID: 2763683 Isn't "medical passenger" also known as "the patient"? (NT) +1/-0     
Author:Self loading baggage
1/31/2023 1:00:42 PM

Reply to: 2763675


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Msg ID: 2763684 Isn't "medical passenger" also known as "the patient"? (NT) +0/-0     
Author:Just passenger
1/31/2023 1:02:27 PM

Reply to: 2763683


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Msg ID: 2763701 ... unless they are assigned a duty aboard aircraft in flight (NT) +0/-0     
Author:then crewmember
1/31/2023 3:08:25 PM

Reply to: 2763684


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Msg ID: 2763704 Patient's don't load themselves! (NT) +0/-0     
Author:Medical Crewmember load them!
1/31/2023 3:59:11 PM

Reply to: 2763675


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Msg ID: 2763706 Patient's don't load themselves!  +0/-0     
Author:sometimes ground crew help load
1/31/2023 4:06:47 PM

Reply to: 2763704

I'm going to call the crewmembers 



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Msg ID: 2763711 you already did in the User Name field (NT) +0/-0     
Author:you couldn't help yourself, lol
1/31/2023 4:30:29 PM

Reply to: 2763706


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Msg ID: 2763776 you already did in the User Name field  +0/-0     
Author:yeah and
2/1/2023 3:29:35 PM

Reply to: 2763711

mcdonalds calls all their workers crew members too but I don't see no aircraft around there.



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Msg ID: 2763806 Well, they are crewmembers for McDonalds, but McDonalds (NT) +0/-0     
Author:isn't a Part 135 Operator, so.......
2/1/2023 11:11:56 PM

Reply to: 2763776


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Msg ID: 2763809 Well, they are crewmembers for McDonalds, but McDonalds  +0/-0     
Author:the guy flipping burgers
2/1/2023 11:15:07 PM

Reply to: 2763806

does about as much for me on a flight as a some dumb nurse or paramedic



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Msg ID: 2763813 you don't have a burger flipper assigned to duty on +0/-0     
Author:your aircraft. nurse/paramedic yes!
2/2/2023 12:30:24 AM

Reply to: 2763809
burger flipper might be a crew for McDonald's, but he (it's) not assigned a duty on your aircraft. so not a crewmember. the nurse and medic are assigned a duty on your aircraft, so they are crewmembers.


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Msg ID: 2763819 you don't have a burger flipper assigned to duty on +0/-0     
Author:they have not been assigned
2/2/2023 1:14:49 AM

Reply to: 2763813

any duties aboard the aircraft and have not been issued airman certificates. in other words, passengers. 



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Msg ID: 2763834 so why are they there for? what's their purpose? (NT) +0/-0     
Author:why them and not that burger flipper?
2/2/2023 8:38:22 AM

Reply to: 2763819


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Msg ID: 2763902 so why are they there for? what's their purpose? +0/-0     
Author:because
2/2/2023 4:56:27 PM

Reply to: 2763834

they can kill the patient much more efficiently



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Msg ID: 2763769 Isn't "medical passenger" also known as "the patient"? +0/-0     
Author:And also paramedics and nurses
2/1/2023 2:05:41 PM

Reply to: 2763671

serve no function other than patient care. basically untrained flight attendants 



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Msg ID: 2763771 they wear NVGs, load/ unload patient (pax), make radio flight  +0/-0     
Author:following calls, stock air ambulance...
2/1/2023 2:29:23 PM

Reply to: 2763769
iows, they are crewmembers since the have an assigned duty on an air ambulance aircraft in flight see FAR 1.1, "crewmember"


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Msg ID: 2763772 they wear NVGs, load/ unload patient (pax), make radio flight  +0/-0     
Author:Ok
2/1/2023 2:34:57 PM

Reply to: 2763771

Self loading baggage



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Msg ID: 2763773 they wear NVGs, load/ unload patient (pax), make radio flight  +0/-0     
Author:Ok
2/1/2023 2:36:46 PM

Reply to: 2763772

And I am. Company because FAR part 1 says I am a person so I must be a company too. 



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Msg ID: 2763783 Not exactly, but when the FARs are referring to "persons", they also mean (NT) +0/-0     
Author:a company, if its actually a company
2/1/2023 5:24:14 PM

Reply to: 2763773


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Msg ID: 2763775 they wear NVGs, load/ unload patient (pax), make radio flight  +0/-0     
Author:loading a patient isn't
2/1/2023 2:57:23 PM

Reply to: 2763771

an assigned duty. anybody can do it. they have no assigned duties because you can't assign duties to a passenger.



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Msg ID: 2763799 Seriously?? Imagine.... +1/-2     
Author:Anonymous
2/1/2023 10:00:31 PM

Reply to: 2763775

you are a certificated air ambulance....

You land at an LZ on the interstate.  The pilot remains at the controls and his medical crewmembers get out to tend to and retrieve the patient.

The pilot is in frong, can't see anything in the back due to the NVG STC requireing blackout curtains.

There he sits....   

Meanwhile, the medical crewmembers get the patient, bring him (it?) back to the running helicopter.

They load that patient unseen by the pilot.  They insure the patient is properly strapped in with restrained.  Hearing protection in place, and assume responsibility for that patient's safety if there is an emergency.

They ensure all the baggage is properly stowed and secured.

They conduct a walk around, to ensure the aircraft is reeady for flight, doors and compartments latched, no seatbelts dangling from the rear hatch.

They report to the pilot who can't see them:   We are all secured, ready for take off.

Pilot responds, trusting them (because they are properly trained), "Roger, liifting" as he completes he takeoff checklist.

To me, that's a crewmember, who has a job and responsibility.

To you, that's just a passenger.   Meanwhile, you havent't got out from behind the controls in the cockpit to do all that they have done for you!

 

FAR 1.1, crewmember, a person who has been assigned a duty aboard an aircraft in flight

 



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Msg ID: 2763807 Seriously?? Imagine.... +0/-0     
Author:they haven't been assigned
2/1/2023 11:12:01 PM

Reply to: 2763799

anything. it's kind of like the guy that sucks out the head or restocks the pretzels and soda except they go with you instead of staying behind to suck out more poop or replace more snacks. we let the rig apes load cargo, get in/out etc. on their own too but they ain't no crew member either. if you want to make them feel special, call them crew members, but they are passengers.



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Msg ID: 2763820 Seriously?? Imagine.... +0/-0     
Author:in the offshore world
2/2/2023 1:21:44 AM

Reply to: 2763807

the HLO makes sure all passengers are briefed, all cargo is secure, all doors, etc are secure. loads and unloads the passengers and cargo, makes sure passengers are belted in and does a visual on the aircraft. they are NOT a crew member.



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Msg ID: 2763848 If they are assigned to do that duty on an aircraft that's flying, yes they (NT) +0/-0     
Author:are. See FAR 1.1, crewmember
2/2/2023 9:43:23 AM

Reply to: 2763820


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Msg ID: 2763853 If they are assigned to do that duty on an aircraft that's flying, yes they +0/-0     
Author:no, they are not
2/2/2023 10:06:56 AM

Reply to: 2763848

assigned to do that. no faa training, no crewmember.



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Msg ID: 2763854 If they are assigned to do that duty on an aircraft that's flying, yes they +0/-0     
Author:keep moving the goal posts
2/2/2023 10:11:59 AM

Reply to: 2763853

but you do bring up a good point:everything they do is ON THE GROUND. they have no responsibilities or duties as far as conducting the flight. that's why they are passengers.



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Msg ID: 2763855 If they are assigned to do that duty on an aircraft that's flying, yes they +0/-0     
Author:what if you took off with just
2/2/2023 10:15:16 AM

Reply to: 2763854

the patient? would the faa care? nope because you didn't leave without crew, only passengers. they do not need to be on board.



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Msg ID: 2763867 If they are assigned to do that duty on an aircraft that's flying, yes they +0/-0     
Author:let me rephrase
2/2/2023 11:13:21 AM

Reply to: 2763855

they need to be onboard for the patient but are not required by any regulation or flight manual. that makes them passengers.



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Msg ID: 2763925 FAR 1.1 doesn't say they need to be requred by FAR's, it simply says +0/-0     
Author:if they are assigned a duty they're...
2/2/2023 9:12:00 PM

Reply to: 2763867

crewmembers

 

They are assigned to be aboard your HAA helicoper with the duty to provide for the patient.  That is a crewmember!   

Otherwise, you'd be responsible to provide for the patient.   Clearly you are not, since you are flying.   

 



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Msg ID: 2763941 FAR 1.1 doesn't say they need to be requred by FAR's, it simply says +0/-0     
Author:you have the word assigned
2/3/2023 1:22:51 AM

Reply to: 2763925

doing some heavy lifting. they have no duties that have anything to do with the operation of the aircraft. I would call them passengers tending to passengers.



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Msg ID: 2763973 FAAs definition of crewmember doesn't say the assignment  +0/-0     
Author:needs to be to any specific operation...
2/3/2023 1:26:19 PM

Reply to: 2763941
... if they are assigned to a duty, any duty, they are considered crewmembers. and considering they are there to qualify the operator to actually be an air ambulance, I'd say the assignment was significant enough to qualify them according to your arbitrary criteria. Clearly, by the definition of FAR 1.1, they _are_ crewmembers.


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Msg ID: 2763983 FAAs definition of crewmember doesn't say the assignment  +0/-0     
Author:uh no
2/3/2023 2:09:17 PM

Reply to: 2763973

you could have that burger flipper in the back and still be an air ambulance. the faa is not concerned in the least how or if they are credentialed. keep trying as it's funny watching you grasp at another straw as they are clearly passengers. arbitrary criteria lol



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Msg ID: 2763984 FAAs definition of crewmember doesn't say the assignment  +0/-0     
Author:you could have no med crew
2/3/2023 2:11:31 PM

Reply to: 2763983

on board at all still be an air ambulance. 



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Msg ID: 2764057 No. because if you had no medcrew onboard, Subpart L +0/-0     
Author:is not applicable. 135.601(b)(1)
2/3/2023 8:27:51 PM

Reply to: 2763984
since you will never fly a patient without the medical crewmembers also onboard.


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Msg ID: 2764059 No. because if you had no medcrew onboard, Subpart L +0/-0     
Author:but you could
2/3/2023 8:37:13 PM

Reply to: 2764057

and it would still be an haa flight. get it. med crew are passengers.



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Msg ID: 2764060 no it wouldn't. they need to be onboard (NT) +0/-0     
Author:again 135.601(b)(1)
2/3/2023 9:09:40 PM

Reply to: 2764059


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Msg ID: 2764071 no it wouldn't. they need to be onboard  +0/-0     
Author:uh
2/3/2023 11:23:49 PM

Reply to: 2764060

1) Helicopter air ambulance operation means a flight, or sequence of flights, with a patient or medical personnel on board, for the purpose of medical transportation...

AND they call them medical personnel, NOT crew. because that's what they are.



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Msg ID: 2764073 no it wouldn't. they need to be onboard  +0/-0     
Author:and
2/3/2023 11:26:41 PM

Reply to: 2764071

(2) Medical personnel means a person> or  personsa> with medical training, including but not limited to flight physicians, flight nurses, or flight paramedics, who are carried aboard a  helicopter during helicopter air ambulance operations in order to provide medical care.

NOT CREWMEMBERS.



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Msg ID: 2764078 Yes, who are considered Crewmembers as per FAR 1.1 +0/-0     
Author:Where does it say....
2/3/2023 11:40:08 PM

Reply to: 2764073

... medical personnel are passengers?   It doesn't.  But FAR 1.1 says they are crewmembers because they are there with a duty "to provide mecical care".



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Msg ID: 2764080 Yes, who are considered Crewmembers as per FAR 1.1 +0/-0     
Author:if you're not a crew member
2/3/2023 11:45:11 PM

Reply to: 2764078

youre a passenger



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Msg ID: 2764081 Correct. And, they are not passengers! (NT) +0/-0     
Author:Anonymous
2/3/2023 11:49:03 PM

Reply to: 2764080


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Msg ID: 2764084 What's a "Flight Nurse", "Flight Physician", and "Flight Paramedic" +0/-0     
Author:Why "flight"?
2/3/2023 11:59:12 PM

Reply to: 2764073

Because they are trained crewmembers assigned a duty aboard a helicopter air ambulance.

 

It's not a helicopter air ambulance flight if they are not on board  



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Msg ID: 2764077 Yes medical personnel... who are crewmembers as per FAR 1.1 (NT) +0/-0     
Author:(since they are assigned a duty)
2/3/2023 11:37:54 PM

Reply to: 2764071


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Msg ID: 2764079 Yes medical personnel... who are crewmembers as per FAR 1.1 +0/-0     
Author:if they were assigned a duty
2/3/2023 11:44:20 PM

Reply to: 2764077

you would be onto something



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Msg ID: 2764083 You already admitted they were assigned a duty, you highlighted it in  +0/-0     
Author:FAR 135.601(b)
2/3/2023 11:52:15 PM

Reply to: 2764079

 

(2) Medical personnel means a person> or personsa> with medical training, including but not limited to flight physicians, flight nurses, or flight paramedics, who are carried aboard a helicopter during helicopter air ambulance operations in order to provide medical care.



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Msg ID: 2764085 You already admitted they were assigned a duty, you highlighted it in  +0/-0     
Author:uh
2/4/2023 12:03:12 AM

Reply to: 2764083

you can put somebody that has never been in an aircraft ever, with no training whatsoever and they are good to as med crew with a briefing. tell me again how they are flight crew. lol



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Msg ID: 2764086 There, you did it again.... you just admitted you could put someone to do (NT) +0/-0     
Author:that duty in flight. Hence: Crewmember
2/4/2023 12:04:24 AM

Reply to: 2764085


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Msg ID: 2764087 There, you did it again.... you just admitted you could put someone to do +0/-0     
Author:you are there to perform a
2/4/2023 12:19:18 AM

Reply to: 2764086

function completely unrelated to (and not even remotely associated with) the operation the aircraft. that makes you a passenger. 



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Msg ID: 2764088 There, you did it again.... you just admitted you could put someone to do +0/-0     
Author:lol
2/4/2023 12:31:33 AM

Reply to: 2764087

ricky rescue wants to be considered a crew member really, really bad



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Msg ID: 2764118 If Ricky Rescue is not assigned a duty to ride along, he is a passenger! +0/-0     
Author:It is quite simple!
2/4/2023 9:59:34 AM

Reply to: 2764088

FAR 1.1  Crewmember means a person assigned to perform duty in an aircraft during flight time.

 

If you have no persons assigned to perform medical care for the patient aboard an aircraft during flight, you are NOT conducting Helicopter Air Ambulance Operations!  See FAR 135.601(b)(2)



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Msg ID: 2764114 All that requirement you added is not in the FAR 1.1 definition of +0/-0     
Author:Crewmember! But, you just.admitted...
2/4/2023 9:11:06 AM

Reply to: 2764087

... again, they are there to perform a duty on an air ambulance.  And, it wouldn't not be helicopter air ambulance operation without them!



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Msg ID: 2763801 Isn't "medical passenger" also known as "the patient"? +0/-0     
Author::-)
2/1/2023 10:44:21 PM

Reply to: 2763671
I guess HAA Pilots must be licensed Healthcare Providers.


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Msg ID: 2763802 Why are you "guessing" that? (NT) +0/-0     
Author:Anonymous
2/1/2023 10:49:26 PM

Reply to: 2763801


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Msg ID: 2763803 Why are you "guessing" that?  +0/-0     
Author::-)
2/1/2023 10:55:00 PM

Reply to: 2763802
Because in my years of flying HAA, I was never ONCE consulted or had any "buy-in" on a drug calculation, a GCS, or anything of the sort. It's like the flight nurse and medic thought that as a pilot, I had a completely different role than them... like flight and OC of the aircraft. Weird.


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Msg ID: 2763804 Well, sure, different roles, all of CREWMEMBERS (NT) +0/-0     
Author:Anonymous
2/1/2023 11:07:48 PM

Reply to: 2763803


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Msg ID: 2763805 When is the last time you saw a 4-Sriper Captain serve 1st drinks to (NT) +0/-0     
Author:1st Class Passengers?
2/1/2023 11:10:22 PM

Reply to: 2763804


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Msg ID: 2763808 Well, sure, different roles, all of CREWMEMBERS  +0/-0     
Author::-)
2/1/2023 11:13:26 PM

Reply to: 2763804
Okay. Sounds good. Lolz.


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Msg ID: 2763810 Well, sure, different roles, all of CREWMEMBERS  +1/-0     
Author:until they get a little
2/1/2023 11:23:23 PM

Reply to: 2763808

plastic card from the FAA showing they are certificated airmen (which is what all CREWMEMBERS get including flight attendants), they are passengers with about as much training and responsibility as somebody in the exit row. I don't care how many walk arounds they do. 



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Msg ID: 2763817 They aren't airmen any more, they are air missions! (NT) +0/-0     
Author:Get woke already
2/2/2023 1:04:09 AM

Reply to: 2763810


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Msg ID: 2763911 NOTAM (NOtice To Air Missions!) (NT) +0/-0     
Author:stupidity in or current government!
2/2/2023 6:56:36 PM

Reply to: 2763817


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Msg ID: 2764157 Isn't the Cabin Steward and the Waiters on a cruise ship considered +0/-0     
Author:CREWMEMBERS?
2/4/2023 1:40:21 PM

Reply to: 2763671

As are everyone who works on that cruise ship, no matter how unnautical their job is!

I know for certain that they are not passengers because they are under strict orders not to use passenger amenities.



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Msg ID: 2764172 Isn't the Cabin Steward and the Waiters on a cruise ship considered +0/-0     
Author:lol
2/4/2023 3:40:06 PM

Reply to: 2764157

I know for certain they work on the ship is because they work on the ship otherwise I wouldn't know for certain. lol 



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Msg ID: 2764452 Isn't "medical passenger" also known as "the patient"? +1/-0     
Author:Who’s
2/6/2023 9:53:41 PM

Reply to: 2763671

on first and does anyone care?



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Msg ID: 2764658 FAR 91.17, FAR 91.11, FAR 135.120, etc, etc! (NT) +0/-0     
Author:yes it matters!
2/9/2023 8:51:52 AM

Reply to: 2764452


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