Msg ID:
2763671 |
Isn't "medical passenger" also known as "the patient"? (NT) +1/-2
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Author:Just asking
1/31/2023 11:14:59 AM
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Msg ID:
2763675 |
Isn't "medical passenger" also known as "the patient"? (NT) +1/-0
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Author:or " Baggage"
1/31/2023 11:46:08 AM
Reply to: 2763671
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Msg ID:
2763683 |
Isn't "medical passenger" also known as "the patient"? (NT) +1/-0
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Author:Self loading baggage
1/31/2023 1:00:42 PM
Reply to: 2763675
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Msg ID:
2763684 |
Isn't "medical passenger" also known as "the patient"? (NT) +0/-0
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Author:Just passenger
1/31/2023 1:02:27 PM
Reply to: 2763683
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Msg ID:
2763701 |
... unless they are assigned a duty aboard aircraft in flight (NT) +0/-0
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Author:then crewmember
1/31/2023 3:08:25 PM
Reply to: 2763684
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Msg ID:
2763704 |
Patient's don't load themselves! (NT) +0/-0
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Author:Medical Crewmember load them!
1/31/2023 3:59:11 PM
Reply to: 2763675
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Msg ID:
2763706 |
Patient's don't load themselves! +0/-0
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Author:sometimes ground crew help load
1/31/2023 4:06:47 PM
Reply to: 2763704
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I'm going to call the crewmembers |
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Msg ID:
2763711 |
you already did in the User Name field (NT) +0/-0
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Author:you couldn't help yourself, lol
1/31/2023 4:30:29 PM
Reply to: 2763706
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Msg ID:
2763776 |
you already did in the User Name field +0/-0
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Author:yeah and
2/1/2023 3:29:35 PM
Reply to: 2763711
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mcdonalds calls all their workers crew members too but I don't see no aircraft around there. |
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Msg ID:
2763806 |
Well, they are crewmembers for McDonalds, but McDonalds (NT) +0/-0
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Author:isn't a Part 135 Operator, so.......
2/1/2023 11:11:56 PM
Reply to: 2763776
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Msg ID:
2763809 |
Well, they are crewmembers for McDonalds, but McDonalds +0/-0
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Author:the guy flipping burgers
2/1/2023 11:15:07 PM
Reply to: 2763806
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does about as much for me on a flight as a some dumb nurse or paramedic |
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Msg ID:
2763813 |
you don't have a burger flipper assigned to duty on +0/-0
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Author:your aircraft. nurse/paramedic yes!
2/2/2023 12:30:24 AM
Reply to: 2763809
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burger flipper might be a crew for McDonald's, but he (it's) not assigned a duty on your aircraft. so not a crewmember.
the nurse and medic are assigned a duty on your aircraft, so they are crewmembers. |
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Msg ID:
2763819 |
you don't have a burger flipper assigned to duty on +0/-0
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Author:they have not been assigned
2/2/2023 1:14:49 AM
Reply to: 2763813
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any duties aboard the aircraft and have not been issued airman certificates. in other words, passengers. |
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Msg ID:
2763834 |
so why are they there for? what's their purpose? (NT) +0/-0
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Author:why them and not that burger flipper?
2/2/2023 8:38:22 AM
Reply to: 2763819
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Msg ID:
2763902 |
so why are they there for? what's their purpose? +0/-0
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Author:because
2/2/2023 4:56:27 PM
Reply to: 2763834
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they can kill the patient much more efficiently |
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Msg ID:
2763769 |
Isn't "medical passenger" also known as "the patient"? +0/-0
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Author:And also paramedics and nurses
2/1/2023 2:05:41 PM
Reply to: 2763671
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serve no function other than patient care. basically untrained flight attendants |
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Msg ID:
2763771 |
they wear NVGs, load/ unload patient (pax), make radio flight +0/-0
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Author:following calls, stock air ambulance...
2/1/2023 2:29:23 PM
Reply to: 2763769
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iows, they are crewmembers since the have an assigned duty on an air ambulance aircraft in flight
see FAR 1.1, "crewmember" |
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Msg ID:
2763772 |
they wear NVGs, load/ unload patient (pax), make radio flight +0/-0
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Author:Ok
2/1/2023 2:34:57 PM
Reply to: 2763771
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Self loading baggage |
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Msg ID:
2763773 |
they wear NVGs, load/ unload patient (pax), make radio flight +0/-0
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Author:Ok
2/1/2023 2:36:46 PM
Reply to: 2763772
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And I am. Company because FAR part 1 says I am a person so I must be a company too. |
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Msg ID:
2763783 |
Not exactly, but when the FARs are referring to "persons", they also mean (NT) +0/-0
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Author:a company, if its actually a company
2/1/2023 5:24:14 PM
Reply to: 2763773
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Msg ID:
2763775 |
they wear NVGs, load/ unload patient (pax), make radio flight +0/-0
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Author:loading a patient isn't
2/1/2023 2:57:23 PM
Reply to: 2763771
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an assigned duty. anybody can do it. they have no assigned duties because you can't assign duties to a passenger. |
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Msg ID:
2763799 |
Seriously?? Imagine.... +1/-2
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Author:Anonymous
2/1/2023 10:00:31 PM
Reply to: 2763775
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you are a certificated air ambulance....
You land at an LZ on the interstate. The pilot remains at the controls and his medical crewmembers get out to tend to and retrieve the patient.
The pilot is in frong, can't see anything in the back due to the NVG STC requireing blackout curtains.
There he sits....
Meanwhile, the medical crewmembers get the patient, bring him (it?) back to the running helicopter.
They load that patient unseen by the pilot. They insure the patient is properly strapped in with restrained. Hearing protection in place, and assume responsibility for that patient's safety if there is an emergency.
They ensure all the baggage is properly stowed and secured.
They conduct a walk around, to ensure the aircraft is reeady for flight, doors and compartments latched, no seatbelts dangling from the rear hatch.
They report to the pilot who can't see them: We are all secured, ready for take off.
Pilot responds, trusting them (because they are properly trained), "Roger, liifting" as he completes he takeoff checklist.
To me, that's a crewmember, who has a job and responsibility.
To you, that's just a passenger. Meanwhile, you havent't got out from behind the controls in the cockpit to do all that they have done for you!
FAR 1.1, crewmember, a person who has been assigned a duty aboard an aircraft in flight
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Msg ID:
2763807 |
Seriously?? Imagine.... +0/-0
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Author:they haven't been assigned
2/1/2023 11:12:01 PM
Reply to: 2763799
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anything. it's kind of like the guy that sucks out the head or restocks the pretzels and soda except they go with you instead of staying behind to suck out more poop or replace more snacks. we let the rig apes load cargo, get in/out etc. on their own too but they ain't no crew member either. if you want to make them feel special, call them crew members, but they are passengers. |
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Msg ID:
2763820 |
Seriously?? Imagine.... +0/-0
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Author:in the offshore world
2/2/2023 1:21:44 AM
Reply to: 2763807
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the HLO makes sure all passengers are briefed, all cargo is secure, all doors, etc are secure. loads and unloads the passengers and cargo, makes sure passengers are belted in and does a visual on the aircraft. they are NOT a crew member. |
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Msg ID:
2763848 |
If they are assigned to do that duty on an aircraft that's flying, yes they (NT) +0/-0
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Author:are. See FAR 1.1, crewmember
2/2/2023 9:43:23 AM
Reply to: 2763820
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Msg ID:
2763853 |
If they are assigned to do that duty on an aircraft that's flying, yes they +0/-0
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Author:no, they are not
2/2/2023 10:06:56 AM
Reply to: 2763848
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assigned to do that. no faa training, no crewmember. |
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Msg ID:
2763854 |
If they are assigned to do that duty on an aircraft that's flying, yes they +0/-0
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Author:keep moving the goal posts
2/2/2023 10:11:59 AM
Reply to: 2763853
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but you do bring up a good point:everything they do is ON THE GROUND. they have no responsibilities or duties as far as conducting the flight. that's why they are passengers. |
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Msg ID:
2763855 |
If they are assigned to do that duty on an aircraft that's flying, yes they +0/-0
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Author:what if you took off with just
2/2/2023 10:15:16 AM
Reply to: 2763854
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the patient? would the faa care? nope because you didn't leave without crew, only passengers. they do not need to be on board. |
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Msg ID:
2763867 |
If they are assigned to do that duty on an aircraft that's flying, yes they +0/-0
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Author:let me rephrase
2/2/2023 11:13:21 AM
Reply to: 2763855
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they need to be onboard for the patient but are not required by any regulation or flight manual. that makes them passengers. |
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Msg ID:
2763925 |
FAR 1.1 doesn't say they need to be requred by FAR's, it simply says +0/-0
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Author:if they are assigned a duty they're...
2/2/2023 9:12:00 PM
Reply to: 2763867
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crewmembers
They are assigned to be aboard your HAA helicoper with the duty to provide for the patient. That is a crewmember!
Otherwise, you'd be responsible to provide for the patient. Clearly you are not, since you are flying.
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Msg ID:
2763941 |
FAR 1.1 doesn't say they need to be requred by FAR's, it simply says +0/-0
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Author:you have the word assigned
2/3/2023 1:22:51 AM
Reply to: 2763925
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doing some heavy lifting. they have no duties that have anything to do with the operation of the aircraft. I would call them passengers tending to passengers. |
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Msg ID:
2763973 |
FAAs definition of crewmember doesn't say the assignment +0/-0
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Author:needs to be to any specific operation...
2/3/2023 1:26:19 PM
Reply to: 2763941
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... if they are assigned to a duty, any duty, they are considered crewmembers. and considering they are there to qualify the operator to actually be an air ambulance, I'd say the assignment was significant enough to qualify them according to your arbitrary criteria.
Clearly, by the definition of FAR 1.1, they _are_ crewmembers.
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Msg ID:
2763983 |
FAAs definition of crewmember doesn't say the assignment +0/-0
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Author:uh no
2/3/2023 2:09:17 PM
Reply to: 2763973
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you could have that burger flipper in the back and still be an air ambulance. the faa is not concerned in the least how or if they are credentialed. keep trying as it's funny watching you grasp at another straw as they are clearly passengers. arbitrary criteria lol |
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Msg ID:
2763984 |
FAAs definition of crewmember doesn't say the assignment +0/-0
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Author:you could have no med crew
2/3/2023 2:11:31 PM
Reply to: 2763983
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on board at all still be an air ambulance. |
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Msg ID:
2764057 |
No. because if you had no medcrew onboard, Subpart L +0/-0
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Author:is not applicable. 135.601(b)(1)
2/3/2023 8:27:51 PM
Reply to: 2763984
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since you will never fly a patient without the medical crewmembers also onboard. |
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Msg ID:
2764059 |
No. because if you had no medcrew onboard, Subpart L +0/-0
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Author:but you could
2/3/2023 8:37:13 PM
Reply to: 2764057
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and it would still be an haa flight. get it. med crew are passengers. |
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Msg ID:
2764060 |
no it wouldn't. they need to be onboard (NT) +0/-0
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Author:again 135.601(b)(1)
2/3/2023 9:09:40 PM
Reply to: 2764059
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Msg ID:
2764071 |
no it wouldn't. they need to be onboard +0/-0
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Author:uh
2/3/2023 11:23:49 PM
Reply to: 2764060
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1) Helicopter air ambulance operation means a flight, or sequence of flights, with a patient or medical personnel on board, for the purpose of medical transportation...
AND they call them medical personnel, NOT crew. because that's what they are. |
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Msg ID:
2764078 |
Yes, who are considered Crewmembers as per FAR 1.1 +0/-0
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Author:Where does it say....
2/3/2023 11:40:08 PM
Reply to: 2764073
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... medical personnel are passengers? It doesn't. But FAR 1.1 says they are crewmembers because they are there with a duty "to provide mecical care". |
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Msg ID:
2764080 |
Yes, who are considered Crewmembers as per FAR 1.1 +0/-0
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Author:if you're not a crew member
2/3/2023 11:45:11 PM
Reply to: 2764078
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youre a passenger |
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Msg ID:
2764081 |
Correct. And, they are not passengers! (NT) +0/-0
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Author:Anonymous
2/3/2023 11:49:03 PM
Reply to: 2764080
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Msg ID:
2764084 |
What's a "Flight Nurse", "Flight Physician", and "Flight Paramedic" +0/-0
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Author:Why "flight"?
2/3/2023 11:59:12 PM
Reply to: 2764073
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Because they are trained crewmembers assigned a duty aboard a helicopter air ambulance.
It's not a helicopter air ambulance flight if they are not on board |
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Msg ID:
2764077 |
Yes medical personnel... who are crewmembers as per FAR 1.1 (NT) +0/-0
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Author:(since they are assigned a duty)
2/3/2023 11:37:54 PM
Reply to: 2764071
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Msg ID:
2764079 |
Yes medical personnel... who are crewmembers as per FAR 1.1 +0/-0
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Author:if they were assigned a duty
2/3/2023 11:44:20 PM
Reply to: 2764077
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you would be onto something |
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Msg ID:
2764085 |
You already admitted they were assigned a duty, you highlighted it in +0/-0
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Author:uh
2/4/2023 12:03:12 AM
Reply to: 2764083
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you can put somebody that has never been in an aircraft ever, with no training whatsoever and they are good to as med crew with a briefing. tell me again how they are flight crew. lol |
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Msg ID:
2764086 |
There, you did it again.... you just admitted you could put someone to do (NT) +0/-0
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Author:that duty in flight. Hence: Crewmember
2/4/2023 12:04:24 AM
Reply to: 2764085
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Msg ID:
2764087 |
There, you did it again.... you just admitted you could put someone to do +0/-0
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Author:you are there to perform a
2/4/2023 12:19:18 AM
Reply to: 2764086
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function completely unrelated to (and not even remotely associated with) the operation the aircraft. that makes you a passenger. |
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Msg ID:
2764088 |
There, you did it again.... you just admitted you could put someone to do +0/-0
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Author:lol
2/4/2023 12:31:33 AM
Reply to: 2764087
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ricky rescue wants to be considered a crew member really, really bad |
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Msg ID:
2764118 |
If Ricky Rescue is not assigned a duty to ride along, he is a passenger! +0/-0
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Author:It is quite simple!
2/4/2023 9:59:34 AM
Reply to: 2764088
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FAR 1.1 Crewmember means a person assigned to perform duty in an aircraft during flight time.
If you have no persons assigned to perform medical care for the patient aboard an aircraft during flight, you are NOT conducting Helicopter Air Ambulance Operations! See FAR 135.601(b)(2) |
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Msg ID:
2764114 |
All that requirement you added is not in the FAR 1.1 definition of +0/-0
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Author:Crewmember! But, you just.admitted...
2/4/2023 9:11:06 AM
Reply to: 2764087
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... again, they are there to perform a duty on an air ambulance. And, it wouldn't not be helicopter air ambulance operation without them! |
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Msg ID:
2763801 |
Isn't "medical passenger" also known as "the patient"? +0/-0
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Author::-)
2/1/2023 10:44:21 PM
Reply to: 2763671
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I guess HAA Pilots must be licensed Healthcare Providers. |
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Msg ID:
2763802 |
Why are you "guessing" that? (NT) +0/-0
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Author:Anonymous
2/1/2023 10:49:26 PM
Reply to: 2763801
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Msg ID:
2763803 |
Why are you "guessing" that? +0/-0
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Author::-)
2/1/2023 10:55:00 PM
Reply to: 2763802
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Because in my years of flying HAA, I was never ONCE consulted or had any "buy-in" on a drug calculation, a GCS, or anything of the sort. It's like the flight nurse and medic thought that as a pilot, I had a completely different role than them... like flight and OC of the aircraft. Weird. |
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Msg ID:
2763804 |
Well, sure, different roles, all of CREWMEMBERS (NT) +0/-0
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Author:Anonymous
2/1/2023 11:07:48 PM
Reply to: 2763803
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Msg ID:
2763805 |
When is the last time you saw a 4-Sriper Captain serve 1st drinks to (NT) +0/-0
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Author:1st Class Passengers?
2/1/2023 11:10:22 PM
Reply to: 2763804
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Msg ID:
2763808 |
Well, sure, different roles, all of CREWMEMBERS +0/-0
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Author::-)
2/1/2023 11:13:26 PM
Reply to: 2763804
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Okay. Sounds good. Lolz. |
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Msg ID:
2763810 |
Well, sure, different roles, all of CREWMEMBERS +1/-0
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Author:until they get a little
2/1/2023 11:23:23 PM
Reply to: 2763808
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plastic card from the FAA showing they are certificated airmen (which is what all CREWMEMBERS get including flight attendants), they are passengers with about as much training and responsibility as somebody in the exit row. I don't care how many walk arounds they do. |
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Msg ID:
2763817 |
They aren't airmen any more, they are air missions! (NT) +0/-0
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Author:Get woke already
2/2/2023 1:04:09 AM
Reply to: 2763810
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Msg ID:
2763911 |
NOTAM (NOtice To Air Missions!) (NT) +0/-0
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Author:stupidity in or current government!
2/2/2023 6:56:36 PM
Reply to: 2763817
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Msg ID:
2764157 |
Isn't the Cabin Steward and the Waiters on a cruise ship considered +0/-0
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Author:CREWMEMBERS?
2/4/2023 1:40:21 PM
Reply to: 2763671
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As are everyone who works on that cruise ship, no matter how unnautical their job is!
I know for certain that they are not passengers because they are under strict orders not to use passenger amenities. |
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Msg ID:
2764172 |
Isn't the Cabin Steward and the Waiters on a cruise ship considered +0/-0
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Author:lol
2/4/2023 3:40:06 PM
Reply to: 2764157
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I know for certain they work on the ship is because they work on the ship otherwise I wouldn't know for certain. lol |
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Msg ID:
2764452 |
Isn't "medical passenger" also known as "the patient"? +1/-0
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Author:Who’s
2/6/2023 9:53:41 PM
Reply to: 2763671
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on first and does anyone care? |
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Msg ID:
2764658 |
FAR 91.17, FAR 91.11, FAR 135.120, etc, etc! (NT) +0/-0
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Author:yes it matters!
2/9/2023 8:51:52 AM
Reply to: 2764452
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