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Msg ID: 2763302 GOM +1/-1     
Author:2.22
1/27/2023 9:02:11 AM

Scheduled Duty Period  

Twelve scheduled consecutive hours that my be continued to 14 hours

 

Duty Assignment           

A revenue flight which may contain multiple legs planned to be completed during the scheduled duty period



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Msg ID: 2763303 GOM +0/-6     
Author:key word is schedule
1/27/2023 9:11:00 AM

Reply to: 2763302

that has nothing to do with flight and rest time. it could say 500 hours and it wouldn't make any difference. try again. lol



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Msg ID: 2763306 GOM +6/-1     
Author:looks like something
1/27/2023 9:32:15 AM

Reply to: 2763303

that should be in the employee handbook, not a gom. the FAA could not possibly care less how long your shift is. it could say 15 minutes or a million hours. the FAA does not regulate the length of your shift, only the flight time and rest. your company could say you're on duty until a week from tuesday but if they want you to fly, they need to send you home for 10 hours. this is so not complicated if you have an IQ higher than room temperture. This did not come from a gom.



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Msg ID: 2763311 GOM +1/-2     
Author:my take
1/27/2023 10:24:55 AM

Reply to: 2763306

Duty period

Duty period means the period of elapsed time between reporting for an assignment involving flight time and release from that assignment by the certificate holder. The time is calculated using either Coordinated Universal Time or local time to reflect the total elapsed time.

Since the time after 14 hours does not require flight time (have you have been released from the assignment involving flight time? I say yes), you may work beyond the duty period so long as it does not involve flight time but you must get the required 10 hours uninterrupted rest before the next duty period. 

 



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Msg ID: 2763312 "...involving flight time...." (NT) +1/-1     
Author:Um, that's for FLIGHT ATTENDANTS
1/27/2023 10:58:55 AM

Reply to: 2763311


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Msg ID: 2763314 Let's review the FAR's +1/-2     
Author:Duty includes simply "actual work"
1/27/2023 11:46:10 AM

Reply to: 2763312

§ 135.261 Applicability.

Sections 135.263 through 135.273 of this part prescribe flight time limitations, duty period limitations, and rest requirements for operations conducted under this part as follows:

(e)( Section 135.273 prescribes duty period limitations and rest requirements for flight attendants in all operations conducted under this part.

 

§ 135.273 Duty period limitations and rest time requirements.

(a) For purposes of this section -

Duty period means the period of elapsed time between reporting for an assignment involving flight time and release from that assignment by the certificate holder. The time is calculated using either Coordinated Universal Time or local time to reflect the total elapsed time.

 

....

Now, for the pilots (aka, flight crewmembers)

 

§ 135.261 Applicability.

Sections 135.263 through 135.273 of this part prescribe flight time limitations, duty period limitations, and rest requirements for operations conducted under this part as follows:

(a) Section 135.263 applies to all operations under this subpart.

 

§ 135.263 Flight time limitations and rest requirements: All certificate holders.

(b) No certificate holder may assign any flight crewmember to any duty with the certificate holder during any required rest period.

 

So, what is duty (any duty)?

 

From FAA's Chief Council's Legal Intepretation to Norman Robinson, 2011

Section 135.263(b) states that "no certificate holder may assign any flight crewmember to any duty with the certificate holder during any required rest period." The FAA has consistently interpreted duty to mean "actual work for a certificate holder, or the present responsibility for work should the occasion arise."

 



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Msg ID: 2763315 10 hours rest “prior” in a given 24 hour period leaves 14 hours remaining. (NT) +0/-0     
Author:That’s max duty period. 14.
1/27/2023 12:02:37 PM

Reply to: 2763302


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Msg ID: 2763316 Extensions are for flight time, not duty time.  +0/-0     
Author:Not both. 14 is the cap for any
1/27/2023 12:06:09 PM

Reply to: 2763315

Assign you report to that could include part 135 flight duties. 



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Msg ID: 2763318 Negative! I think you think 135.267(c) is being used! +0/-1     
Author:It isn't! 135.267(b) & (d) is!
1/27/2023 12:18:16 PM

Reply to: 2763316

FAR 135.267 limits your duty period to 14 hours if you are on a regularly assigned schedule that doesn't change.  Can't think of ANY operation (except maybe Gas and Oil work, a slim maybe) that uses such a schedule!   Nobody in HAA/HEMS does since virtually ALL schedules go from day to night weekly.   That sort of schedule demands (by FAR) the use of 135.267(b)&(d), not 135.267(c).

 

Your GOM will specifically tell you if you are using 135.267(b) & (d), or 135 267(c).

 



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Msg ID: 2763333 HAA is a “regularly assigned schedule” which is why AMC went standardized +0/-0     
Author:Schedule. Day/night swap doesn’t matter
1/27/2023 4:17:47 PM

Reply to: 2763318

12 hour duty periods that are a "regularly" and "normally" assigned schedule according to  the FAA. Your point is wrong again mr Maaaayorrrrs



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Msg ID: 2763353 Nope! FAA say's differently. A 3 day, 5 night, 7 off is not a  +0/-0     
Author:regurlarly assigned duty period
1/27/2023 6:33:28 PM

Reply to: 2763333

You are not on a regurlarly assigned flight schedule.   The FAA made that clear in a 2017 legal intepretation to Moody-Seven Bar Aviation:

 

The FAA allows infrequent deviations from a regularly assigned work schedule conducted under§ 135.267(c). However, "iftbe pilot's schedule has intermittent periods where the duty time fluctuates from day to day or week to week, the operator is not maintaining a regular work pattern." In such case, the operation should be conducted under§ 135.267(b). Therefore we must stress that if the flight crew's duty time fluctuates on a regular basis, it would not be able to operate under 135.267(c). See Legal Interpretation to Doug Holee, from Donald Byrne, Acting Assistant Chief Counsel, Regulations and Enforcement Division (July 22, 1989).

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/Data/interps/2017/Moody-SevenBar_Aviation_2017_Legal_Interpretation.pdf

 

Additionally, it is not you who makes such decisions, it is your certificate holder.  And, they clearly determined themselves to be operating under 135.267(b) and (d), not (c).   Just look at your GOM (cited above) to confirm such important details!

 

 

 

 



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Msg ID: 2763369 Have you read FAA's Interp letter to New? +2/-0     
Author:Probably not.....
1/27/2023 10:28:38 PM

Reply to: 2763333

 

Sounds like you are not on a regurlarly assigned duty schedule if you go from days to night in the middle of your "hitch" each week.

 

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/Data/interps/2013/New_2013_Legal_Interpretation.pdf

 

And, it makes perfect sense, if you understood why FAR 135.267(c) was even instituted.



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Msg ID: 2763371 ... which is why AMC went standardized +0/-0     
Author:They went to that because....
1/27/2023 10:51:03 PM

Reply to: 2763333

... two reasons.   They had just started a new payroll system and it was easier for that computerized system to be set up if pilot's had a steady schedule in the bi-weekly pay cycle.   But, they also claimed that having every pilot on a "standard schedule" would make it easier to cover open shifts for sick callouts and vacation.   Their idea was that everyone would be starting/ending on common days, easing the effort to find coverage.

But, they also  said the FAA was on their back because the randomness of schedules made it difficult to track pilots duty periods.  This was not backed-up with any logical support, since the FAA deals with hundreds of operators who have random pilot schedules, including airlines where every line is different duty periods.

Well, at least that was the reasons the union's non-elected appointed trustee who never flew a day of HAA/HEMS in his entire career.



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Msg ID: 2763317 Negative, that's not a max duty period. That is a look-back window to show +2/-1     
Author:10 hrs of required rest in 24 hrs
1/27/2023 12:10:27 PM

Reply to: 2763315

 

The duty period has not maximum.  Just that if you are going to operate an aircraft under Part 135, you must be able to show 10 hrs of rest (requred rest) before you plan to complete the flight time of that assignment (i.e., land by that time).  Your duty period can go far past that requirement, as long as you are not planning to fly.

 

We tend to think of it as a 14 hour maximum in practicality, but it isn't!   There is no requirement to end your actual duty period by the 14th hour.  

The FAA has consistently interpreted duty to mean "actual work for a certificate holder, or the present responsibility for work should the occasion arise."   Meaning, it is not rest!   Your rest starts once you no longer are on duty!   That's when you can start your rest timer for the required rest of 10 hours!

 



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Msg ID: 2763334 It is if I could conduct a flight (duty) assignment, not that I have to (NT) +0/-0     
Author:You’re a walking contradiction
1/27/2023 4:18:51 PM

Reply to: 2763317


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Msg ID: 2763359 how so? same spiele consistently said! ther is no 14 hr duty period limit +0/-1     
Author:There is only a REST requirement.
1/27/2023 8:21:50 PM

Reply to: 2763334
you can be on duty for 16 hours, 18 hours, 24 hours..... just can't operate a aircraft under Part 135 unless you can show 10 hours of rest looking back from the planned completion of a flight assignment (ie, the landing). it's been that way since before you were in diapers holding a toy helicopter. you operate under 135.267 (b) & (d), which you can verify looking at your company's GOM.


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Msg ID: 2763360 how so? same spiele consistently said! ther is no 14 hr duty period limit +0/-1     
Author:There is only a REST requirement.
1/27/2023 8:22:05 PM

Reply to: 2763334
you can be on duty for 16 hours, 18 hours, 24 hours..... just can't operate a aircraft under Part 135 unless you can show 10 hours of rest looking back from the planned completion of a flight assignment (ie, the landing). it's been that way since before you were in diapers holding a toy helicopter. you operate under 135.267 (b) & (d), which you can verify looking at your company's GOM.


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Msg ID: 2763320 GOM +1/-1     
Author:Font size
1/27/2023 12:36:24 PM

Reply to: 2763302

Yoh might think 2.22 should be in the employee handbooI, but the fact of the matter it is in the GOM. If you think the ops manual is optional, then you are a special kind of stupid. If you want to exceed your duty period then go ahead.



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Msg ID: 2763323 GOM +0/-1     
Author:well
1/27/2023 2:21:38 PM

Reply to: 2763320

not everything you need to know is in the ops and manual, chief



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Msg ID: 2764454 GOM +0/-0     
Author:Flight
2/6/2023 10:00:15 PM

Reply to: 2763302

assignment, not duty assignment.



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