Awhile back Air Evac was advertising for EC135 pool pilots, supposedly paying $120k+. It seems like all of the other major HAA operators also use pool pilots to cover new bases / scheduling gaps, but I haven't seen much info regarding pay and benefits. 

For all of you pool pilots on the HAA side... what is the pay like? Do you get a stipend for being a pool pilot? 7/7 schedule, commuting on your 'off days'? Are there any other operators that hire externally for pool pilot positions, or do you typically have to start at one base and transfer internally?

You are deadheading for your company (ground or air transporting).   They need you somewhere, it's work for you to get there.   Simple.

It is DUTY!   You are not OFF.  You must count that as part of your duty peroid for the lookback clock.   You need to account for it on your duty/timesheet.

Air Methods does use National Pool pilots.  Basically, you cover bases that have a need for long term relief while they hire for that base.  They try to schedule you to work 7 on and 7 off at that base, week after week.  You will travel to that base they day before and generally fly home the day after your 7 day shift ends.  Travel days are paid at the OT rate.  So, generally, you will work a 9/5 schedule.  Once that position is filled, off to the next base that has a need for a long term relief.  You get paid the ACCRA of Denver, 110% I believe, for your straight time.  Now, you serve at the needs of AMC, so anything goes with the schedule.  However, they try not to screw you over to much.  You are a union pilot so everything in the contract applies to you, just like a "base" pilot.  You can also email a pilot recruiter in Denver and they will be more than happy to fill you in on the position so you can make an informed decision.  Good luck.

They hire new into pool and do internal transfers, often from closed bases.

Long term vacancies, sometime new bases which need quick ramp up. Your spot is posted. They hire someone, off you go.  Some stay a few months, some stay years.  No minimum time in pool, can apply for open permanent positions any time.

Base pay

10% Accra

$50 per day per diem (13/14/23) including travel days about 10k/year

1.5 for travel door to door, 8hr travel equivalent to 1 day pay.

Company paid airline, rental car, rental car fuel.,Lodging, usually hotel, could be company provided housing. Quality may vary.  Not buying fuel for personal vehicle to drive to work.

Schedule, vacation accrual and usage, day to day at the base, like a permanent pilot.

Assignment based off company needs without your input, they are slowly starting to consider reducing travel requirements.  May consider aircraft model experience, usually don't.

Travel not local in nature considered duty. Don't fly/drive 8 hours and then start your shift.

commutes to/from work are on you because it is from your resident to your domicile place of work.   IOWs, you are domiciled (based) at X, so your drive from home to X is on you.   If you drive to Y instead of X for your employer, it is no longer "local in nature", and is not considered part of your rest.

If you are co-domiciled (ie, assigned to two or more places), then going to/from home to any of those places is considered "local in nature" provided it is reasonable.

"local in nature" has no fixed distance requirement, and is not a universally applied radius from your domicile base elsewhere.   It is duty to ground transport yourself (drive, ride, bus, taxi, walk, etc) from your domicile to another, or from your home to a place other than your domicile.

You are on duty!  And, you cannot count that as part of your regulatory rest requirement (which includes counting it as a "day off")

Thank you for the info.

So if AMC is paying $85k to start, 110% modifier, and 1.5 for travel days... as a pool pilot you should be making around $134k annually for a 9/5 schedule? ($93.5k base + 52 travel days at 1.5)

Is it possible to do 16/12 or any other schedule variations? What about PTO?

Considerd 135 duty time?

but it is considered duty so you need the 10 hour look back for rest. AMC pay is about 100 with the 110%. 35-40 hours a month OT for travel plus the per diem puts you at about 140 a year. Go ahead and get all upset because I don't duty in for travel. I don't care.

Of getting carried away with things that don't matter.

"I attest the information contained in this duty time report is accurate and complete"

It's why they make YOU sign it!   

No dog in the fight but you are referencing Part 117 which only qpplies to part 121 operations when you say that dead heading is considered duty time.  

Ya just finished up a 12 hour night shift on 7th night,  it's now 0800. You now have an all day commercial airline commute from your base back to your home half way accross the country. You don't have to be back to work for 7 days now. You must.

A. Duty out at 0800 and go get 10 hour rest before you can commute back home via commercial airline and then after 10 hours duty back in for the commute home?

B. Duty out at 0800, disregard the 10 hour rest and commute home without even messing with duty log?

10 hrs of rest lookback is required for you to PILOT a Part 135 flight, not to commute, train, meet, mop, wash, go to get drug tested, etc.   So, you can leave work, go fly home commercially, and THEN duty off!

Then, when you fly back, you duty on leaving your home to travel, and duty off when you get to the hotel/quarters to start your 10 hour rest requirement before you can accept another Part 135 flight.

You can be on duty for 24, 36, 48 hours, you just can't act as a flight crewmember if you can't show 10 hours of rest looking back 24 hours from the completion time of that planned flight.

The duty log reports any and all duty, which includes company travel, meetings, work, beeper duty, janitorial chores, training, etc) because they are all DUTY time!

If you duty off at 0800 and fly home commerically, what time can you begin your next Part 135.267(d) duty period?

According to your duty/time sheet in this case, 1800.   Is that accurate?  Is that legal?  Is that properly logged?

FAR 135.63(a)(4)

Who gives a crap

A crap guy is only one who knows what he talking about. Clearly.

my home airport, I could get ramp checked while walking through the terminal and boy would I be in big trouble. lol

Jail pard they got ya dead to rights. 

Neither are yours

And so is everyone else's, bearing their signature ofcourse.

What if you forgot to sign it and it's like 3-5 days after the end of month. Your at home on off week and realize you forgot to sign it. Would you duty in to sign your signature and then duty out. Or would ya just sign it and move on with your day? 

all you have log is enough landings. nothing a single one more. I certainly can show 13 off in a quarter so not changing.

For instance, you log going off duty.... then you show you have had enough time off before you cao come on again, except you've WORKED between logging off duty and coming back on.   So, you aren't showing that you have enough time off, when you snuck in some duty time in there after you've logged off!

You're log is not to be trusted if they see you've worked and have not shown corresponding duty time.   POI's can cross-reference training records (ground school), safety meeting rosters, pay/travel records, etc to easily see your DUTY report is not accurately reflecting your actual DUTY time.

Company assures FAA/POI their duty time reports are designed to ensure pilots meet the FAR requirements, but that only works when pilots are actually reporting their DUTY times!

Travel for the company, training, meetings, etc are DUTY!

have a ball 

lol

Please stop this stupid thread!!!   You all think you are so smart.  If you think there is a problem here, please direct your comment/complaints to the FAA.  It's like you think something is happening that has not been happening for many years!    Geesh!!

This is a productive and informative thread ya downer. 

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC%20117-3.pdf</p>

11. COMMUTING AND DEADHEAD TRANSPORTATION. There has been quite a bit of confusion on the part of the general public with regard to the terms “commuting” and “deadhead transportation” or “deadheading.” Both are transportation terms normally used by the airline industry.

a. Deadheading. The airline industry refers to the term deadheading as any time that an air carrier assigns a flightcrew member to be transported by a mode of transportation, usually by air, from one location to another and that same flightcrew member is not functioning as an operating flight flightcrew member. Normally, the concept of deadheading is used to move a flightcrew member so that they can be in position to function as an operating flightcrew member for a flight or series of flights. In basic terms, deadheading is an air carrier means of matching crews with the location of their aircraft.

b. Commuting. In contrast, the concept of commuting involves an individual flightcrew member that does not reside within their domicile. This flightcrew member then uses some mode of transportation to get to and from the domicile. Most commuters prefer to commute by air as it provides them with the most flexibility. Unlike deadheading, the commuting flightcrew member is solely responsible for determining and using the mode of transportation to commute to and from their domicile. In basic terms, commuting is an individual initiated function.

Part 135 float/pool pilots commute to their location.  They do not deadhead.

Not 135 ops. Cool story tho 

new generation coming on line.  Since history is of no one's interest things are just going to be repeated, incessantly.

How was duty time logged? Like 4 lines with 1 line drawn diagonal through it, big brain stuff like that? Scratch lines in the dirt or slide beads on a wire?

[Can't link the letter of interp since the URL contains the name Neg ron and JH won't allow it typed. you will have to look it up yourself if you want to see the actual letter]

2009 Neg ron-3

Office of the Chief Counsel

800 Independence Ave., S.W. Washington. D.C. 20591

Dear Mr. Neg^ron, [had to hyphenate the name because JH won't allow the spelling as is]

This is in response to your May 14, 2009, request for a legal interpretation. Specifically, you question whether a pilot, conducting operations under part 135, may merely estimate his or her flight and duty time on a record that is required to be kept to show compliance with the flight time limitation and rest requirements of part 135, and be in compliance with 14 C.F.R. § 61.59.

Section §6 l .59(a)(2) prohibits a person from making, or causing to be made, any "fraudulent or intentionally false entry in any logbook, record or report that is required to be kept, made, or used to show compliance with any requirement for the issuance or exercise of the privileges of any certificate, rating, or authorization under [part 61]." ·14 C.F.R. § 61.59. Section 61.59 would apply to your scenario if the pilot in question needed to use the record to show compliance with any requirement under part 61 for his or her certificate or rating. See Legal Interpretation 1997-8 (Apr. 9, 1997). Furthermore, whether §61.59 has been violated is a question of fact that relies on the knowledge and intent of the individual when making such entries and whether such entries are material and actually relied upon by the FAA. Id Based on the limited· factual scenario you have provided, we cannot say whether the FAA would view such an estimation of flight time to be fraudulent or intentionally false under §61.59.

We note, however, that pursuant to § 135.63, each certificate holder is required to keep an individual record of each pilot that conducts operations. That record must provide, among other things, the "pilot's flight time in sufficient detail to determine compliance with the flight time limitations of [part 135]." 14 C.F.R. § 135.63(a)(4)(vii). An estimation of flight time, especially an estimate that understates the number of hours flown, would not be sufficient to show compliance with § 135.63. Furthermore, to the extent the pilot may use that record as a basis for determining whether to accept an assignment under any of the provisions of subpart F of part 135, such a determination may not be made on a mere estimation. That record must contain accurate information of sufficient detail to show compliance with the flight and duty time limitations of subpart F.

We appreciate your patience and trust that the above responds to your concerns. If you need further assistance, please contact my staff at (202) 267-3073. This response was prepared by Anne Bechdolt, Acting Manager of the Operations Law Branch of the Regulations Division of the Office of the Chief Counsel, and coordinated with the Air Transportation Division of Flight Standards Service.

Sincerely, AJ/4-,&;._,)

f~ Rebecca B. ~Pherson Assistant Chief Counsel for Regulations, AGC-200

[Can't link the letter of interp since the URL contains the name Neg ron and JH won't allow it typed. you will have to look it up yourself if you want to see the actual letter]

2009 Neg ron-3

Office of the Chief Counsel

800 Independence Ave., S.W. Washington. D.C. 20591

Dear Mr. Neg^ron, [had to hyphenate the name because JH won't allow the spelling as is]

This is in response to your May 14, 2009, request for a legal interpretation. Specifically, you question whether a pilot, conducting operations under part 135, may merely estimate his or her flight and duty time on a record that is required to be kept to show compliance with the flight time limitation and rest requirements of part 135, and be in compliance with 14 C.F.R. § 61.59.

Section §6 l .59(a)(2) prohibits a person from making, or causing to be made, any "fraudulent or intentionally false entry in any logbook, record or report that is required to be kept, made, or used to show compliance with any requirement for the issuance or exercise of the privileges of any certificate, rating, or authorization under [part 61]." ·14 C.F.R. § 61.59. Section 61.59 would apply to your scenario if the pilot in question needed to use the record to show compliance with any requirement under part 61 for his or her certificate or rating. See Legal Interpretation 1997-8 (Apr. 9, 1997). Furthermore, whether §61.59 has been violated is a question of fact that relies on the knowledge and intent of the individual when making such entries and whether such entries are material and actually relied upon by the FAA. Id Based on the limited· factual scenario you have provided, we cannot say whether the FAA would view such an estimation of flight time to be fraudulent or intentionally false under §61.59.

We note, however, that pursuant to § 135.63, each certificate holder is required to keep an individual record of each pilot that conducts operations. That record must provide, among other things, the "pilot's flight time in sufficient detail to determine compliance with the flight time limitations of [part 135]." 14 C.F.R. § 135.63(a)(4)(vii). An estimation of flight time, especially an estimate that understates the number of hours flown, would not be sufficient to show compliance with § 135.63. Furthermore, to the extent the pilot may use that record as a basis for determining whether to accept an assignment under any of the provisions of subpart F of part 135, such a determination may not be made on a mere estimation. That record must contain accurate information of sufficient detail to show compliance with the flight and duty time limitations of subpart F.

We appreciate your patience and trust that the above responds to your concerns. If you need further assistance, please contact my staff at (202) 267-3073. This response was prepared by Anne Bechdolt, Acting Manager of the Operations Law Branch of the Regulations Division of the Office of the Chief Counsel, and coordinated with the Air Transportation Division of Flight Standards Service.

Sincerely, AJ/4-,&;._,)

f~ Rebecca B. ~Pherson Assistant Chief Counsel for Regulations, AGC-200

trite

Aren't ya dummy :)

but still going w/ trite

A 3 wheeled motorcycle is called a trite

https://www.ntsb.gov/legal/alj/OnODocuments/Aviation/3859.pdf

 ;

some EMS pilots were taking flights while off duty and tried to cover it up. 

Boomer stuff

Your one of those fellas that drives 51 miles one way to work. Call it an hour commute, sometimes more. If you were that fella would you

A. Duty in walking out the door and getting into your vehicle to commute to work?

B. Duty in when ya get to work and begin work responsibilities?

Take it a step further. When do you duty out.

A. Walking out the door to commute home?

B. After you completed your commute home and walk in the door at your home?

Lets take it even further. When would you punch in your time card to get paid? 

Commuting is you driving yourself from where you live to your workplace.

Deadheading is you travelling for the company to a place where they need you, from your home or domicile.

A relief pilot/pool pilot is not driving himself to work, he is travelling for the company.  He is home based.  They need him/her somewhere and assign it to him/her and provide the travel, be it POV/commercial transportation.  That pilot is working for the company for that transportation and thus on duty.  That duty counts towards his rest limitations.

A commuter's time spent to/from work is of the pilot's own doing.  That is not duty!

So, a relief pilot travelling to a base starts his duty time when he leaves the home to travel to the work assignment.  That's duty time.   That duty time ends when s/he is back home, or in a hotel/adequate rest facility.   

A pilot needs to have 10 hrs of rest in the last 24 hours looking back from when a planned PART 135 flight lands.   The deadhead time in front of the day's "shift" is part of that lookback!

A legal interpolation of the term "driving"

It's Deadheading!

The pilot lives (is based) in one place, and the company assigns that pilot to another place.  The company is responsible to move that pilot from his base to that assignment.  That's deadheading, whether by air or by ground.   The pilot is ON DUTY

but I'm still not going to do it unless I'm traveling to another base but not when going home so sorry.

and I don't care

the remainder of your statement is opinion.

I don't give a f**k

A. Duty in to write an ASAP about not dutying correctly? 
B. Not Duty in to write ASAP about not dutying correctly? 

what's an asap so I guess none of the above chief

it's called trolling

?

Losers keep this thing going!!! 

Right?