Click here to close
New Message Alert
List Entire Thread
Msg ID: 2748018 AMC Check Airmen over 50% votes are in and they already have (NT) +4/-4     
Author:Over 75% YES votes!!
10/27/2022 1:58:55 PM


Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748020 Since the NMB doesn't count the secret votes until Nov 1st, I say +2/-9     
Author:you are union shill! REMEMBER,
10/27/2022 2:04:00 PM

Reply to: 2748018

You must VOTE NO if you don't want a Union, else fall prey to the tactis of unethical union corruption here!

 

Seems like the OP was hoping to discourage further voters from voting NO by lying to everyone here!



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748023 Only a company that deserves a union (NT) +3/-2     
Author:Has a union…
10/27/2022 2:40:13 PM

Reply to: 2748020


Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748027 A union only gets DECERTIFIED who deserves to be DECERTIFIED (NT) +2/-5     
Author:OPEIU has three such already!
10/27/2022 2:49:45 PM

Reply to: 2748023


Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748092 Only a company that deserves a union +4/-1     
Author:Not original but
10/28/2022 10:39:43 AM

Reply to: 2748023

True enough.  But what you have to know is that AMC actually voted the union down twice.  Then, when they acquired Rocky Mountain Helicopters the union was voted in.  This was a known outcome when AMC decided to acquire Rocky.

That said, this industry was improved because of the union.  Before then, there was forced workover at straight pay, vacation was paid if you could get it covered, no sick pay, bases getting paid differently, discipline was out of control, and on and on.

Say what you will about unions.  But unless you lived through the early days you really don't know how lucky you are.



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748093 Competitive Market changed "things", not unions! +1/-4     
Author:Back then, growth was astronomical
10/28/2022 11:55:45 AM

Reply to: 2748092

and companies needed offer more and more to recruit labor.   Union's were simply along for the ride, and not actual driving forces.   



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748098 Says the “anti-union” whiner who has zero facts and proves it (NT) +2/-1     
Author:Day after day
10/28/2022 1:22:05 PM

Reply to: 2748093


Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748100 zero facts... worked for a HEMS company, got offer by another for lots more +0/-4     
Author:present company matched plus big $$
10/28/2022 1:39:57 PM

Reply to: 2748098

Neither were UNION, and it was before the current Union was even voted into existance.

Swallow that fact!



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748117 How’s that working out for now…all the free time to post and cry On here (NT) +1/-1     
Author:Seems not very well…
10/28/2022 2:55:55 PM

Reply to: 2748100


Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748139 Well, it would be better if I was paid to be her posting +0/-1     
Author:like as a union "consultant" ...
10/28/2022 10:36:08 PM

Reply to: 2748117

a technique to slip money to the unethical at heart!



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748300 zero facts... worked for a HEMS company, got offer by another for lots more +0/-1     
Author:Not back before the union
10/30/2022 10:26:26 AM

Reply to: 2748100

you didn't get crap.



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748304 Yup! 23% raise. Supply and demand 101! (NT) +0/-1     
Author:Anonymous
10/30/2022 11:24:44 AM

Reply to: 2748300


Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748024 Vote YES for AMC check airmen Union!!! (NT) +3/-4     
Author:Stand up and fight back!!
10/27/2022 2:40:56 PM

Reply to: 2748018


Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748040 Did OPEIU give it in writing yet to designate it as its own Local? (NT) +1/-1     
Author:Separate, unique, as it's class/craft?
10/27/2022 3:22:15 PM

Reply to: 2748024


Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748042 AMC Check Airmen over 50% votes are in and they already have  +3/-6     
Author:Unions
10/27/2022 3:42:46 PM

Reply to: 2748018

$ U C K have done nothing good for the wokers( but steal $$$) since after the industrial revolution!!🤢🤮🧛‍♂️



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748044 There are 40 designated eligible voters, so way less than majority wanting +2/-4     
Author:union ... and that's how they do it!
10/27/2022 4:15:10 PM

Reply to: 2748018

According to the OP's numbers, he has 50% of the NMB eligible voters voting, with 75% voting YES.

 

That amounts to 15 voting YES out of 40 eligible voters.   Way less than a majority of eligible.   So, you can see that a MINORITY can easily vote in a union and impose their way on the full membership.

40 times 50% voting, is 20.  75% of 20 voting YES is only 15!

 

That's why you must VOTE NO if you don't want a union.   You cannot just not vote thinking there isn't much support for it.   Technically, 1 guy in 40 eligible can vote a union in if only that 1 guy votes!   

Don't be tricked by the Union guy hoping someone who doesn't want a union will not vote.   You can bet everyone who want a union will vote YES (they are motivated to make a change).  No voters are generally the opposite (they don't think they have make a concerted action to express NO support).

 

 



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748071 Nice try with your anti-union babble…u haven’t been paying attention (NT) +3/-2     
Author:Vote YES for the Union!!!
10/27/2022 11:37:41 PM

Reply to: 2748044


Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748072 AMC Check Airmen over 50% votes are in and they already have (NT) +0/-1     
Author:No rooster in the fight
10/28/2022 1:13:33 AM

Reply to: 2748018
For us utility types how much are the dues for this union vs. yearly salary?


Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748077 1% if you are an Agency Fee Payer, less if you are a Member! (NT) +0/-6     
Author:Some Members don't pay dues at all!
10/28/2022 7:26:53 AM

Reply to: 2748072


Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748078 AMC Check Airmen over 50% votes are in and they already have (NT) +1/-2     
Author:1% I believe
10/28/2022 7:27:59 AM

Reply to: 2748072


Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748085 1% of base salary only. (NT) +2/-2     
Author:Tons of benefits for MEMBERS
10/28/2022 8:28:56 AM

Reply to: 2748072


Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748106 What benefits? They offer nothing that's needed. Seriously +1/-4     
Author:List them! (then compare notes)
10/28/2022 1:55:47 PM

Reply to: 2748085

Medical?  Nope, current company provides that.

Dental?  Nope, current company provides that.

"Free" towing?   Nope, current car insurance provides that.

"Free" college tuition for other people's family members?   Nope, don't need/want that!  Company provides tuition assistance.  Besides, the curriculum is set up as a union indroctrination syllabus

"Free" pet care?  Nope, don't need that.

1-in-thousand chance for a "free" scholarship for the family?   Nope, that primarily goes to preselected union organizers family members.

"Free" dues reduction benefits??  A scheme to pay members money from the general kitty funded more by Agency Fee Payers.  Distributing money from the union to the members is generally against the organizations by-laws because it is unethical and jeorpidizes the tax exempt status of non-profit union.

Death Benefit?  Again, have Agency Fee payers fund this benefit more than members, but the "program" (benefit) is seriously lacking written policy and is an operating outside the typical government oversight for such insurance benefits.   IOWs, willy-nilly at best!  Is there a escrow account set up for said "benefit"?

Personally, I'd rather keep my 1% to use as I see fit rather than pretend I benefit from these Union "benefits" 

 



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748116 Protected sick, vacation, 401k that non union AMC employees had taken +6/-1     
Author:And far More…u r that guy!
10/28/2022 2:54:56 PM

Reply to: 2748106

If you were a member instead of whiney anti union fee layer you would know and have utilized them...wait...didn't you ASK to be given union benefits as a non-member?!!!? Seems like the union offers something if you were begging them for it....



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748119 What benefits? They offer nothing that's needed. Seriously +0/-3     
Author:Hard to
10/28/2022 2:58:04 PM

Reply to: 2748106

Disagree with that sentiment 



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748130 Union or not +5/-2     
Author:Pro / Cons
10/28/2022 6:17:04 PM

Reply to: 2748106

I have worked at both union and non union. One where the union was voted in and after that I was sure of my raise every year, twice yearly actual. Before the union raises were every few years when pilots were in short supply and the company had to compete with others. Often the new guy started at higher salary than the guys who had been there for years. I was happy to have a union even though they didn't help me when I was fired in the worng.

Now I work at a non union job and the company controls everything. Company has always treated pilot good but raises are not guarenteed. This last two years has seen an increase in pay and benefits, and management don't fight pilot requests for time off etc since they want to keep all the pilots they have. I'm sure the situation will change again in a few years when pilots are plentiful. 

So pay the 1% for standard raises and a set policy for things like vacation etc, or keep the 1% and be at the mercy of the company. Given the choice I would pay the 1% so I'm sure of what to expect.



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748135 True Story, Bruh +8/-2     
Author:One Who Was There
10/28/2022 8:09:48 PM

Reply to: 2748018

In the 1995 during the union push at PHI but before the actual vote, I happened to be shut down at the company's heliport in New Orleans in my little Bolkow. One of the corporate attorneys (not one of the labor attorneys), who I knew, happened to be there, waiting for the CEO. They were catching a flight out in an S-76. The CEO had not gotten there yet.  The attorney took me aside and quietly asked me whether I thought the upcoming union vote would be successful? I expressed my misgivings; helicopter pilots are generally not the brightest bulbs on the Christmas tree.  "Oh, it has to pass!" the attorney said.  "You guys need a union!  I mean, $25,000 to start? Come on!"  I sh!t you not, that's what he said.

See, this lawyer knew the value of a professional...how much training and experience we pilots have to have to do what we do. He understood. He probably commanded a very nice salary from the company, and probably had a employment contract to boot. Yet our pilot starting pay back then was a pitiful $25,000 per year. And the company routinely messed with our benefits. It was when our CEO announced that our sick-leave was "seven days per year, use it or lose it" that I put my hand up and became a union supporter. Any secretary or admin (or even said CEO) can come in and work with a broken arm or leg. We pilots can't. We can be "down" for weeks. We have to be able to accrue sick leave until our LTD kicks in (if necessary).  "Oh, just your vacation time."  Our CEO make a union believer out of me!

It is weird to me how emotionally anti-union some pilots are! They get all bowed-up about it - as if working for a unionized company will just ruin their life! If you know helicopter pilots, you know that most of them think that they're waaaaaay smarter than you (and me), and they only care about themselves, not the industry as a whole, and certainly not other pilots. Ironically, at the same time they don't have enough self-respect to stand up and say, "By God, I *AM* worth more than they're paying me!" It's sad. And it's why helicopter pilots will never achieve the kind of status and get the kind of respect that airline pilots do.



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748149 Thanks for sharing that, (NT) +1/-1     
Author:we are our own worst enemies.
10/29/2022 12:35:21 AM

Reply to: 2748135


Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748189 True Story, Bruh +1/-1     
Author:Hammer
10/29/2022 4:20:18 PM

Reply to: 2748135

Boy you just hit the nail on the head



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748190 Thing is, the guys running the union aren't anything educated, smart,  +3/-4     
Author:cunning, etc. They just now rob you...
10/29/2022 4:34:59 PM

Reply to: 2748135

of being your own boss and charge you for it in dues or fees.   AMC, for instance, was unionized with maybe 1/4 of the number of pilots they now represent, and with fewer than 20% of those here who voted for them in the first place.

 



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748346 Thing is, the guys running the union aren't anything educated, smart,  +1/-1     
Author:say wut
10/30/2022 5:22:16 PM

Reply to: 2748190

some idiot thinks you can be your own boss while working for somebody 



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748335 True Story, Bruh +1/-4     
Author:25 years ago
10/30/2022 2:19:32 PM

Reply to: 2748135

A lot of things have changed in 25 years.  Used to be that union companies generally led in pay and benefit raises.  Not any more. Now, they lag behind.  The market has always run the pay scheme, the unions just took credit for upping the pay.



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748337 True Story, Bruh +2/-1     
Author:very little has changed
10/30/2022 3:02:48 PM

Reply to: 2748335

https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2020/nonunion-workers-had-weekly-earnings-81-percent-of-union-members-in-2019.htm

 



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748351 Another True Story, Bruh +2/-2     
Author:Anonymous
10/30/2022 5:57:13 PM

Reply to: 2748135

In 2006, the pilots were directed to go on strike by the union, and within a week, the union collapsed.  Since then, the pilots have been doing just fine without the union



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748352 Another True Story, Bruh +1/-1     
Author:and PHI has mostly honored
10/30/2022 6:03:12 PM

Reply to: 2748351

the contract. there is still a union presence at PHI and that's the reason why they are doing okay but it's not good. 



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748191 AMC Check Airmen over 50% votes are in and they already have  +4/-1     
Author:Funny
10/29/2022 5:22:28 PM

Reply to: 2748018

how pilots finally figure this is business and companies will never give anything on merit or productivity, but only when they have to.  Trusting management is never a good idea, if you do it has to be trust but verify, at best.



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2748520 AMC Check Airmen over 50% votes are in and they already have  +2/-1     
Author:Same
10/31/2022 3:09:12 PM

Reply to: 2748191

as the airlines though their support bases are more populous and highly concentrated in a few locations.  Makes for far more efficient and effective solidarity.  Replicate that via the digital age and the union representation will be vastly more influential.  Guaranteed.



Reply  Return-To-Index