Msg ID:
2741287 |
407 down in Cali?? +0/-1
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Author:Info.
9/4/2022 1:30:08 PM
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Mountains in Cali north or LA. |
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Msg ID:
2741302 |
407 down in Cali?? +0/-0
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Author:Saved data
9/4/2022 3:36:29 PM
Reply to: 2741287
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AMC pilot in hospital |
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Msg ID:
2741312 |
407 down in Cali?? +1/-3
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Author:Question
9/4/2022 4:40:29 PM
Reply to: 2741302
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Ok so it wasn't an HAA/EMS helicopter? A AMC pilot doing something else with another company? What is a B407 doing at 10,000' on the hottest day of the year? |
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Msg ID:
2741460 |
TAIL NUMBER N687AM +1/-0
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Author:Air Methods PR Flight
9/6/2022 3:22:42 AM
Reply to: 2741312
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No medical crew on board. Pilot taken to hospital. No other information will be released by AMC. |
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Msg ID:
2741547 |
407 down in Cali?? +0/-0
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Author:answer...
9/6/2022 11:18:03 PM
Reply to: 2741312
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It was a HAA PR flight.
It wasn't at 10000'
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Msg ID:
2741322 |
407 down in Cali?? +1/-1
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Author:that makes it what 5-6 for the year
9/4/2022 6:19:54 PM
Reply to: 2741302
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just 2 recently and now this....and others throughout the year....Not very good start to them... |
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Msg ID:
2741323 |
407 down in Cali?? +0/-0
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Author:....
9/4/2022 6:33:05 PM
Reply to: 2741287
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Looks like he was stuck between a rock and a hard place...literally. hope he recovers. |
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Msg ID:
2741339 |
Yep, AMC in So. Cal where it's blistering hot (NT) +1/-1
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Author:PR flight so only one soul on board
9/4/2022 10:36:34 PM
Reply to: 2741287
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Msg ID:
2741342 |
So what exactly happened then? (NT) +1/-0
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Author:Are we guessing
9/4/2022 11:05:35 PM
Reply to: 2741339
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Msg ID:
2741352 |
So what exactly happened then? +7/-4
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Author:SWAG
9/5/2022 5:46:45 AM
Reply to: 2741342
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Here is my guess, based on flying in that area for years. LACFD states the aircraft went down near Baldy and Glendora roads. Hard landing. There is a helicopter LZ at Cow Canyon Saddle, in that general area. Used by fire/police all the time. Good place to do a PR. Big enough for a Type 2 medium, so a 407 can use it no problem. LZ around 4500', if memory serves me. Morning temperature maybe 70 degrees? That puts the DA at 6500+. Winds, if they existed, can be tricky, swirling because the LZ is on a saddle. No wind? Now you need more power at the end of the approach. If this indeed was the area the pilot tried to land at under those conditions, that a tough demand for a 407. If this wasn't the area, who knows why it crashed, other than not enough power to arrest the rate of descent. Glad the pilot wasn't seriously injured.
Note to AMC management-the aircraft you use to cover the high desert have no business conducting scene calls in mountainous terrain, especially in the summer months. |
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Msg ID:
2741362 |
So what exactly happened then? +0/-1
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Author:...
9/5/2022 7:59:43 AM
Reply to: 2741352
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Do they get any fog/low clouds in that area this time of year? The flt track they posted didn't appear as a PR flight....... |
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Msg ID:
2741363 |
So what exactly happened then? +0/-1
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Author:SWAG
9/5/2022 8:38:32 AM
Reply to: 2741362
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What was the track? Last one I found was Loma Linda back to Hesperia. |
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Msg ID:
2741427 |
Track link... +0/-0
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Author:....
9/5/2022 6:32:53 PM
Reply to: 2741363
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There's 2 tracks shown. One on the page then another ADSB track in a hyperlink above the Twitter track pic.
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/282405
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Msg ID:
2741372 |
So what exactly happened then? +3/-1
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Author:Anonymous
9/5/2022 10:51:41 AM
Reply to: 2741352
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4500/6500 is not high altitude for a 407. A 206 maybe if you're not careful but this altitude is not enough to start speculating. |
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Msg ID:
2741373 |
So what exactly happened then? +11/-2
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Author:hot and heavy
9/5/2022 10:53:17 AM
Reply to: 2741352
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On what planet is landing a 407 at 6500' da, especially one that's lightly loaded, a "tough demand".
After you've explained to AMC how they're using the wrong aircraft, you might want to call AZ DPS and tell them that they have no business flying 407's in the mountains. |
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Msg ID:
2741382 |
So what exactly happened then? +0/-0
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Author:What would
9/5/2022 12:18:16 PM
Reply to: 2741352
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Be the appropriate aircraft you suggest? |
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Msg ID:
2741396 |
So what exactly happened then? +1/-0
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Author:Agree. It’s a fine aircraft especially
9/5/2022 1:51:33 PM
Reply to: 2741382
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Lightly loaded. Hell lots of HEMS bases in AZ using them at higher altitude To include flagstaff which sits at 7000 MSL elevation and with the temps like today it is DA at 9500 and they operate 407 and AZ DPS. |
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Msg ID:
2741398 |
So what exactly happened then? +1/-0
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Author:couch potatoe
9/5/2022 1:52:01 PM
Reply to: 2741382
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well, a B3 astar or a 407 HP for starters |
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Msg ID:
2741397 |
So what exactly happened then? +12/-1
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Author:Another Old Guy
9/5/2022 1:51:54 PM
Reply to: 2741352
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Here goes another Old Guy story...
Back in 1960, a guy named Link Luckitt landed his Hiller 12E at over 17000 ft while
rescueing climbers on Mt McKinley. Sixty five hundred feet DA too much for a407?
You kids crack me up,
Another Old Guy
PS Look it up |
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Msg ID:
2741400 |
So what exactly happened then? +2/-5
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Author:Again
9/5/2022 2:02:36 PM
Reply to: 2741397
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Back in my day!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA |
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Msg ID:
2741401 |
So what exactly happened then? (NT) +0/-1
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Author:billy bob
9/5/2022 2:49:12 PM
Reply to: 2741397
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Msg ID:
2741402 |
So what exactly happened then? +2/-4
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Author:billy bob
9/5/2022 2:50:10 PM
Reply to: 2741397
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Back the helicopter pilots knew how to fly and they knew their machines. |
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Msg ID:
2741418 |
So what exactly happened then? +0/-1
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Author:You should
9/5/2022 4:57:44 PM
Reply to: 2741402
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Become a mentor and pass along your wealth of knowledge. |
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Msg ID:
2741420 |
or, just let nature take its course... (NT) +0/-1
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Author:happy trails skipper.
9/5/2022 5:25:50 PM
Reply to: 2741418
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Msg ID:
2741421 |
or, just let nature take its course... +0/-1
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Author:What ones
9/5/2022 5:33:29 PM
Reply to: 2741420
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That? |
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Msg ID:
2741492 |
So what exactly happened then? +5/-1
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Author:oldNtired
9/6/2022 12:40:48 PM
Reply to: 2741418
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We try to pass on our knowledge but you younger guys just don't seem to want to listen. I'm not going to trade knowledge for ridicule ! |
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Msg ID:
2741506 |
So what exactly happened then? +1/-0
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Author:Why Would Anyone Try To Share
9/6/2022 2:29:53 PM
Reply to: 2741492
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Experience and wisdom with them? They know it all. |
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Msg ID:
2741615 |
So what exactly happened then? +1/-0
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Author:Yet another old guy
9/7/2022 6:47:14 PM
Reply to: 2741397
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Not to mention the mountain flying done with the Bell 206 "back in the Day". Seismic, heli-skiing, USFS, etc. I've made countless takeoffs and landings above 10,000 in fully-loaded 206Bs. Kids nowadays.... |
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Msg ID:
2741422 |
On a PR flight? (NT) +0/-0
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Author:Where was medical crew?
9/5/2022 5:43:45 PM
Reply to: 2741287
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Msg ID:
2741430 |
that's why he crashed...no medcrew to (NT) +8/-0
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Author:tell him what to do.
9/5/2022 6:58:07 PM
Reply to: 2741422
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Msg ID:
2741438 |
AZ 407 THERE NOW ARE NOT +0/-1
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Author:HP MODELS
9/5/2022 8:22:31 PM
Reply to: 2741430
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BTW....AZ DPS and Guardian do not fly HP.... |
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Msg ID:
2741454 |
AZ 407 THERE NOW ARE NOT +0/-0
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Author:gump
9/5/2022 11:23:51 PM
Reply to: 2741438
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An AMC program in AZ flys HP and Air Life Denver. |
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Msg ID:
2741490 |
AMC Lost Guardian AZ to Metro (NT) +0/-0
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Author:RTAG Graduate
9/6/2022 12:12:20 PM
Reply to: 2741454
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Msg ID:
2741956 |
AZ 407 THERE NOW ARE NOT +0/-0
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Author:Wrong...
9/10/2022 10:56:28 PM
Reply to: 2741438
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Guardian has three HPs, and the long-range plan is to convert the rest of the fleet to HPs as well. |
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Msg ID:
2741461 |
On a PR flight? +1/-0
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Author:Yes, that's the info released
9/6/2022 3:32:23 AM
Reply to: 2741422
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Pilot was alone on a PR flight. Flightaware shows activity for the ac N687AM beginning at 06:12 AM with a few flights and maneuvers before the helicopter crashed. It could have been a weight issue (for not taking crew) because of the intense heatwave and potential winds but no info was released about the reasoning for the pilot to go alone. |
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Msg ID:
2741474 |
Piiss Poor Planning = +1/-1
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Author:Piiss Poor Performance!
9/6/2022 9:37:41 AM
Reply to: 2741287
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Did the pilot review the performance charts in the RFM?
Was the aircraft a 407GX? The Garmin 1000 will tell you if you have sufficient power to operate at certain altitudes if the correct data is input into the Garmin.
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Msg ID:
2741517 |
Piiss Poor Planning = +4/-1
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Author:FAA report says loss of power
9/6/2022 4:35:13 PM
Reply to: 2741474
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you must mean the height velocity chart. don't know what the garmin tells you bro |
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Msg ID:
2741524 |
Piiss Poor Planning = +1/-0
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Author:Got Fuel
9/6/2022 6:00:01 PM
Reply to: 2741517
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It could have operated light on fuel due to heat and altitude Ran out of fuel. |
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Msg ID:
2741525 |
Piiss Poor Planning = +0/-0
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Author:absolutely
9/6/2022 6:06:28 PM
Reply to: 2741524
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no way |
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Msg ID:
2741573 |
Piiss Poor Planning = we don't know yet +2/-2
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Author:OK....
9/7/2022 11:50:24 AM
Reply to: 2741546
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It does not matter is he was military or civilian. What matters is that we are making less and less good pilots with bad skills and worse decision making.
Just look at the lack of training, and pilots not asking for more. Starting in aircraft they do not under stand.
Look at the accidents over the last ten years in HAA.
We are not finding new ways to crash, but we are crashing more due to a lack of a lot of things. |
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Msg ID:
2741579 |
Piiss Poor Planning = we don't know yet +0/-1
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Author:If you look at the accidents
9/7/2022 1:21:33 PM
Reply to: 2741573
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they are going down so I guess the rest of your post is pretty much nonsense bro |
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Msg ID:
2741582 |
Piiss Poor Planning = we don't know yet +1/-1
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Author:Reallyyyy??
9/7/2022 1:24:28 PM
Reply to: 2741579
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Hay Bro... love that respect in the post bro.
Look at the trends, how many have we has this year, it starts slow then ramps up.
Mark my words, you will see more not less.
Experience is a harsh teacher bro. |
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Msg ID:
2741583 |
Piiss Poor Planning = we don't know yet +3/-1
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Author:Say wut
9/7/2022 1:27:08 PM
Reply to: 2741582
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experience is a harsh teacher lol what is that even supposed to mean. experience should tell you to look at the last 10 years, not the last 10 minutes |
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Msg ID:
2741584 |
Piiss Poor Planning = we don't know yet +0/-0
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Author:oh but you said
9/7/2022 1:28:48 PM
Reply to: 2741583
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mark my words so never mind that must really mean you know what you’re talking about lol |
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Msg ID:
2741957 |
Piiss Poor Planning = +0/-0
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Author:N687AM is not a GX...
9/10/2022 11:00:05 PM
Reply to: 2741474
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...bare bones "Legacy" model would be a good description. |
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Msg ID:
2746097 |
did any of you "experts" read the Prelim? (NT) +0/-0
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Author:What a bunch of tools
10/7/2022 6:04:45 PM
Reply to: 2741474
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