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Msg ID: 2721271 Good coverage of Utah NG incident +0/-0     
Author:Thebeatgoeson
2/23/2022 7:02:21 PM

https://youtu.be/2e-mpXMxm2Y 



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Msg ID: 2721303 Good coverage of Utah NG incident +8/-0     
Author:Yes
2/24/2022 12:27:09 AM

Reply to: 2721271

Amazing watching two flight crews not following any rule they had been taught from early in flight school regarding this kind of flying.



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Msg ID: 2721381 Good coverage of Utah NG incident +2/-0     
Author:Ex UH60
2/24/2022 1:35:50 PM

Reply to: 2721303

Have to say, this was the most basic of basic errors. Crashing in a totally avoidable training whiteout condition. Why the in trail aircraft descended into the whiteout before the lead, having more time observe the conditions occurring ahead is mystifying. It would appear, as the video commentary points out, that this event happened before they even launched that day. Pre-mission planning "What-if?" seems to have not been briefed, not utilized or forgotten. If so, questions should be asked if it is a systemic or a unique training problem.

2c



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Msg ID: 2721387 Yo have had an accident flying or you will have an accident flying. +1/-3     
Author:olderendirt
2/24/2022 2:06:38 PM

Reply to: 2721381

The objective is to delay the inevitable as long as possible.

In my experience, while I was doing something stupid, inadvertently dangerous, my unconscious was screaming for attention, caution while I continued. Having more than one input, a lead or a trail aircraft, or a passenger/customer distracting me just made it harder to 'break the chain'. 

I don't have any time over snow other than sledding, skiing (mostly falling downhill) but I believe it provides a very poor distance from surface cueing?

I agree, training in that type of operation could be improved and the amount of training increased. I don't say that because I know about anything the training provided the pilots. I know that there is a natural tension between increasing training and cutting costs.



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Msg ID: 2721395 Yo have had an accident flying or you will have an accident flying. +2/-1     
Author:If you read the thread before
2/24/2022 2:29:24 PM

Reply to: 2721387

You posted, 6ou would have kept your non sequiters to yourself. The Heli skiing guy gave a perfect synopsis of snow flying in helicopters.



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Msg ID: 2721399 Yo have had an accident flying or you will have an accident flying. +1/-6     
Author:Well
2/24/2022 3:28:40 PM

Reply to: 2721387

all ya have to do is hover increasingly downward only as visibility increases - did it for years in HAA, never had a problem day or night.



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Msg ID: 2721721 Good coverage of Utah NG incident +0/-1     
Author:From
2/27/2022 4:18:00 PM

Reply to: 2721303

what I've heard flight school these days might as well be a Ben and Jerry's outing to northern Vermont in summer time.  Cool picnic and light chatter.



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Msg ID: 2721534 Army standards are now the lowest ever +3/-0     
Author:An Army Guy
2/25/2022 5:42:11 PM

Reply to: 2721271

Anyone who puts in an application to Army flight school gets accepted (they're that short; no more vetting).

Everyone who starts training makes it to their advanced aircraft; no matter how bad they are.  

The majority (and I'm not joking) will make it through their advanced aircraft even if they can barely pass their 5/9 test, check-ride, etc.  The Army's that short pilots and they're being pushed through and hoping the units can get them up to speed.  The Apache community is actually kicking them out for fligh deficiency I'm told, but their standards are pretty darn low too.  

Most garbage students will finally get FEB'd at their units, the rest may just be super slow to be FORCED into becoming PICs one day.

Training at the unit is just more risk averse / dumbed down to compensate for the lower standards.  

It's a sad world.  These young pilots that have gone through the Lakota IERW training will be reaching their 6 years ADSO's this coming year so you will start seeing pilots like these in your midst very shortly. 

Maybe they'll up their own personal standards when they get a reality check of the challenges of flying in the civil world, but I wouldn't count on it.  Be prepared to mentor HIGHLY and not be afraid to call them out or send them on their way if they refuse to learn their trade or follow company rules. 

 

 



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Msg ID: 2721537 Army standards are now the lowest ever +2/-1     
Author:Sounds
2/25/2022 7:29:47 PM

Reply to: 2721534

like results of more woke garbage from the naive great reset the WEF is pushing as the IR4.  End of personal standards, obligation, ethical behavior, development of curiosity and initiative not to mention, muchly, useful innovation.

Could go on, but that should provide enough food for thought.

Very dangerous times.



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Msg ID: 2721571 4 military pilots can’t land without hitting each other. SMH. (NT) +0/-3     
Author:Best training in the world, THEY SAY.
2/26/2022 8:54:17 AM

Reply to: 2721537


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Msg ID: 2721585 4 military pilots can’t land without hitting each other. SMH.  +1/-2     
Author:It
2/26/2022 11:02:10 AM

Reply to: 2721571

was good training, back in the day.

Not sure now, probably too much woke garbage hobbling the development of responsibility and capability. 



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