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Msg ID: 2718370 EC135 Crash +0/-0     
Author:Wild Ride
1/28/2022 8:41:43 AM

NTSB Prelim:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NTSB_database/comments/sbq6he/1_minor_3_none_january_11_2022_era22fa105/

 

 



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Msg ID: 2718372 EC135 Crash +2/-1     
Author:Roll
1/28/2022 8:57:21 AM

Reply to: 2718370

Was mentioned. But nothing about barrel roll. Who was the one to start the barrel roll rumor?



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Msg ID: 2718386 EC135 Crash +1/-7     
Author:Barrel rolls,
1/28/2022 11:25:28 AM

Reply to: 2718372

in line rolls, snap rolls, no one cares - in the instance witnesses say what they can to characterize what they see.  

Non event.



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Msg ID: 2718420 EC135 Crash +9/-0     
Author:Non- event???
1/28/2022 3:26:55 PM

Reply to: 2718386

A helicopter performs aerobics not induced by the pilot, ends up in a pile of non-useable parts & you call it a "non-event"? So I guess WWII was a skirmish.😂🤣



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Msg ID: 2719506 EC135 Crash +0/-0     
Author:Pure
2/6/2022 4:47:49 PM

Reply to: 2718420

Belligerent ASH HOLE.

Get a grip youngster.



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Msg ID: 2718718 Yes Barrel roll was mentioned +0/-0     
Author:----
1/30/2022 9:27:16 PM

Reply to: 2718372

"The helicopter rotated along its longitudal axis multiple times" according to someone on the ground...

 

The medical crew said they were "pinned onto the roof"... Was it low G's or a sloppy barrel roll?



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Msg ID: 2718791 Yes Barrel roll was mentioned +1/-0     
Author:Not one mention of Barrel At All
1/31/2022 3:53:16 PM

Reply to: 2718718

Only roll. Rolls around the longitudinal axis if a complete 360, would be an aileron roll, or cyclic roll. Barrel rolls are coordinated maneuvers around the longitudinal and lateral axes.



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Msg ID: 2719507 Yes Barrel roll was mentioned +0/-0     
Author:At
2/6/2022 4:49:24 PM

Reply to: 2718791

least someone knows the difference betwixt a roll and barrel roll.

What a bunch of amateurs in the helicopter aerobatic population.



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Msg ID: 2718375 EC135 Crash +5/-1     
Author:anony
1/28/2022 9:06:45 AM

Reply to: 2718373

From the report

"According to the flight medic, the flight was routine, and they were within 10 minutes of landing at 9PN2. He and the flight nurse were out of their seats treating the patient when a loud "bang" was heard, and the helicopter banked sharply right and continued into a right roll. The medic said that the helicopter rolled inverted, perhaps multiple times, and that he and the nurse were "pinned to the ceiling" and internal communication was lost. The helicopter was leveled, the patient was secured, the crewmembers secured themselves in their seats, and they braced for landing."

I understand the reddit post failed to use proper spacing, formatting and paragraph form making it easy to miss parts of the report if only scan reading.



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Msg ID: 2718388 EC135 Crash +1/-5     
Author:So
1/28/2022 11:31:01 AM

Reply to: 2718375

u can't read between the lines and figure it all out?  It's a prelim, store it and carry on.  When the full report comes out check the differences and learn.

Geesh.



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Msg ID: 2718387 EC135 Crash +1/-1     
Author:U make
1/28/2022 11:29:06 AM

Reply to: 2718373

absolutely no sense.



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Msg ID: 2718389 EC135 Crash +1/-1     
Author:Thanks.
1/28/2022 11:33:40 AM

Reply to: 2718370

Good progress..



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Msg ID: 2718392 EC135 Crash +0/-1     
Author:it's word salad for
1/28/2022 11:50:36 AM

Reply to: 2718389

I have no idea what happened



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Msg ID: 2718460 EC135 Crash +0/-1     
Author:You’ve
1/28/2022 7:08:31 PM

Reply to: 2718392

never investigated an accident for sure.  That word salad is pretty much the process.



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Msg ID: 2718417 EC135 Crash +0/-3     
Author:Utility flyer
1/28/2022 3:10:08 PM

Reply to: 2718370

 I don't know anything about EC 135's. Is possible to roll one intentionally or not and not have to negative G's cut off the tail?



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Msg ID: 2718427 EC135 Crash +0/-0     
Author:how the hell would
1/28/2022 3:36:43 PM

Reply to: 2718417

anybody know the answer to that one



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Msg ID: 2718430 EC135 Crash +1/-1     
Author:Utility flyer
1/28/2022 3:45:28 PM

Reply to: 2718427

 Well.... some machines are known to fly in neg G such as the BO 105 must other machines are known to not tolerate any neg G such as any Bell product.

 I would guess the POH would have such info or Eurocopter would know. I would also guess pilots of the EC135 would know.

 



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Msg ID: 2718433 EC135 Crash +3/-0     
Author:yeah that's is
1/28/2022 3:48:11 PM

Reply to: 2718430

check the "POH"or ask a 135 pilot about flying it upside down lol



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Msg ID: 2718451 EC135 Crash +1/-1     
Author:You sound really smart
1/28/2022 6:14:01 PM

Reply to: 2718430

But I've seen a 407 do multiple loops and rolls.  Is that a bell product?



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Msg ID: 2718454 EC135 Crash (NT) +0/-0     
Author:Prove it.
1/28/2022 6:48:56 PM

Reply to: 2718451


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Msg ID: 2718456 EC135 Crash +4/-0     
Author:Hmmm
1/28/2022 6:54:49 PM

Reply to: 2718454

Guess Bell didn't build this 407 then...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DL6mI5iRy3g

 



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Msg ID: 2718455 EC135 Crash +0/-0     
Author:Do You Mean?
1/28/2022 6:53:20 PM

Reply to: 2718451

?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MfFStR_fA8
?
If so, that isn't a loop.



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Msg ID: 2718466 EC135 Crash +1/-0     
Author:That’s
1/28/2022 7:28:42 PM

Reply to: 2718455

a British Lynx.  That pushover is as dangerous as coming under 1 G in a loop if not handled properly.



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Msg ID: 2718464 EC135 Crash +2/-0     
Author:Manage
1/28/2022 7:21:19 PM

Reply to: 2718430

positive g on the rotor and any helicopter will do it.  Suggest a course in FW aerobatics.



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Msg ID: 2718471 EC135 Crash +0/-0     
Author:Entry Speed for A Loop In A
1/28/2022 7:51:34 PM

Reply to: 2718464

Decathlon is 140 knots. Entry "G" is 4 eased to 2 "G"s over the top. You would need 140 knots minimum entry to make it over the top with enough "G" available to keep positive "G" from 90 deg nose up to 90 deg nose down. You would have very little margins for error in the attempt.



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Msg ID: 2718487 EC135 Crash +0/-0     
Author:You
1/29/2022 7:45:50 AM

Reply to: 2718471

omit one thing.  The collective is a 'direct lift device' that changes the game with respect to aerobatics as compared to the Decathlon (7KCAB?) which is where I started aerobatics, then on to helicopter aerobatics.



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Msg ID: 2718551 EC135 Crash +0/-0     
Author:If you use cyclic
1/29/2022 5:31:56 PM

Reply to: 2718471

And collective in that fashion, it is not going to result in a traditional loop ie perfectly round. More of a quarter loop into a back flip.



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Msg ID: 2718462 EC135 Crash +0/-0     
Author:Good
1/28/2022 7:11:19 PM

Reply to: 2718427

grief!



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Msg ID: 2718461 EC135 Crash +0/-0     
Author:Yes
1/28/2022 7:10:46 PM

Reply to: 2718417

Easy, truthfully.



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Msg ID: 2718463 Neg G's +5/-0     
Author:Anonymous
1/28/2022 7:16:48 PM

Reply to: 2718417

Just because it rolled doesn't mean it had negative G's (it depends on how the roll was done).

ANY helicopter can roll...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ7pVjQ5Y5g Sea Stallion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q52KxdjXvJM Apache

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USmOqlj9Hag Blackhawk (semi-roll)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QijetGUlJ4A Lynx

I've known a Bell 206 pilot who did a loop, and various old UH-1 and AH-1 guys who have done it (the Cobra guys did them from altitude in an aggressive right/left dive to inverted, so I guess that wasn't a full roll from level all the way up and around but seems like a roll to me).  So even tetering rotorheads can do it if you maintain positive thrust.

There was a video posted on this forum once of an R44 doing it.  It was grainy old phone video but it was very distinctly a roll.  It looked like he was trying to do a return to target and rolled it over accidentally.

Obviously, any articulated system can do it with ease as long as you don't reduce collective while inverted, which would take off the tailboom.



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Msg ID: 2718467 Cobra +4/-0     
Author:An Army Guy
1/28/2022 7:32:44 PM

Reply to: 2718463

Cobra almost inverted:   0:37

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K157C4vLdoY

 



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Msg ID: 2718472 Cobra +2/-0     
Author:Easy
1/28/2022 7:54:20 PM

Reply to: 2718467

but the speed build up once the downward acceleration starts is quick and maintaining rotor rpm was interesting.



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Msg ID: 2718488 Cobra +1/-0     
Author:Normal
1/29/2022 7:50:01 AM

Reply to: 2718467

Cobra wingover.  Not a big deal.



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Msg ID: 2718719 EC135 Crash +0/-0     
Author:---
1/30/2022 9:29:36 PM

Reply to: 2718417

First, it's a 4 bladed semi-rigid rotor system. This is not a 2-blade system. I don't see a mast bumping possibily with this helicotper ( flew an EC135 for almost 9 years)

2, they talked about barrel rolls.. that's not a low-g manuever



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Msg ID: 2718452 EC135 Crash +0/-0     
Author:Anonymous
1/28/2022 6:41:24 PM

Reply to: 2718370

$h!t link. 



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Msg ID: 2718480 EC135 Roll video here +2/-1     
Author:Anony
1/28/2022 11:52:57 PM

Reply to: 2718473

https://youtu.be/mjpTFxmGkus

go to 5:30 to watch a ec135 do a roll



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Msg ID: 2718489 EC135 Roll video here +2/-0     
Author:Was
1/29/2022 7:53:01 AM

Reply to: 2718480

that a roll, a barrel roll, a snap roll, a 4 point roll, an 8 point roll?

Good grief.



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Msg ID: 2718986 EC135 Roll video here +0/-0     
Author:Strength2gether
2/1/2022 11:08:03 PM

Reply to: 2718480

He was climbing fast and keeping positive g's on the rotor system and look how much altitude he lost in the manuever.  Imagine two sloppy unintentional rolls.  They would have been a smoking hole...



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Msg ID: 2718618 EC135 Crash +0/-0     
Author:Nodoginfite
1/30/2022 11:56:23 AM

Reply to: 2718370

Interesting observation of the tr flexball cable wrapped around the mast.  Post impact event or flight event.  That cable runs inside the tail boom I believe so will be interested how it ends up around the mast



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Msg ID: 2718640 EC135 Crash +3/-0     
Author:EC135 Mech
1/30/2022 1:58:41 PM

Reply to: 2718618

The cable runs inside the T/R Driveshaft cover (not the Tail boom) held up by 7 or 8 adel clamps at each driveshaft bearing support location, my guess is upon impact and tail boom separation the cable was loose and then wrapped around the M/R head while it was still spinning..



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Msg ID: 2718704 EC135 Crash I blame the medcrew who had no +0/-1     
Author:business out of their seats.
1/30/2022 7:55:50 PM

Reply to: 2718640

You just watch....



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Msg ID: 2718705 EC135 Crash I blame the medcrew who had no +0/-0     
Author:So what
1/30/2022 7:57:03 PM

Reply to: 2718704

what are you going to do, call a cop



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Msg ID: 2718706 EC135 Crash I blame the medcrew who had no (NT) +0/-0     
Author:No. 911 to accident scene
1/30/2022 8:00:17 PM

Reply to: 2718705


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Msg ID: 2718808 EC135 Crash +2/-0     
Author:Tail
1/31/2022 6:20:04 PM

Reply to: 2718618

broke off in crash, exit one cable, willy nilly

around that spinning mast.

EZ Pee Zee.



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Msg ID: 2719153 EC135 Crash +1/-0     
Author:Acrobats
2/3/2022 7:02:20 PM

Reply to: 2718370

I barrell roll the AStar every time I go IIMC in the simulator.. Easy



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