Msg ID:
2716200 |
Some people really think LTE is a myth? +0/-0
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Author:HeloHead
1/8/2022 9:42:43 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGC0jeDUD9Q
I shake my head... taught as a flight instructor for many years in the 206 and experienced all the wind regions and commensurate LTE when a student would let us set up or sit too long in one of the regions (granted, the weathervane region is a little overstated as a named region). Had to use the EP for LTE to get out of the onset of LTE many times.
Robbie Rangers ever experience LTE?
Anyone else? |
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Msg ID:
2716203 |
If you fly a little piece of a turd helicopter +8/-2
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Author:Then yes, LTE exists
1/8/2022 10:28:32 AM
Reply to: 2716200
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Occurrence of a rapid right yaw rate which doesn't subside of it's own accord and if not quickly reacted to will result in loss of aircraft control.
Scouts Out |
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Msg ID:
2716205 |
If you fly a little piece of a turd helicopter +0/-0
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Author:X CWO
1/8/2022 10:56:46 AM
Reply to: 2716203
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BTDT, lived to tell about it. Full left pedal so hard it felt like I almost broke my ankle when it hit the pedal stop. Had an AO in the left seat, he just kept saying "there's the sun, there's the sun." When we finally got it under control and landed I asked him, "W-T-F was that about?!?!?" He said, "I was counting revolutions, you did six."
Over torqued the aircraft (OH-58C) in the process. The maintenance officer want to know how high the Tq got. I told him I couldn't say, that when I had the presence of mind to check the Tq gauge it was coming back down through 102%. He wanted to know why I wasn't "watching the guage?" I told him I was a bit busy and had more important issues to deal with at the time. He complained that he was now going to have to change out the T/R gearbox. I told him I was good with that and walked away! |
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Msg ID:
2716206 |
Agree with the Airbus guy: It is a myth. +0/-1
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Author:Sleepy Flyer
1/8/2022 11:00:43 AM
Reply to: 2716200
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"Had to use the EP for LTE to get out of the onset of LTE many times."
Like what "EP," pushing the left pedal? The Frenchman in the linked video notes that in many cases of "the onset of LTE," the pilot simply does not push the left pedal fully enough or fast enough. Sometimes they claim to have pushed the pedal when in fact they did not (and he showed the video of one instance). Helicopters are big weathervanes. They WANT to point into the wind. Some pilots seem to not understand this basic concept.
There is a helicopter instructor who teaches in the R-44 who claims on his YouTube channel that an American helicopter can get into LTE while hovering with a strong *left* crosswind. Only a Robbie pilot would think this. Every real helicopter pilot knows that the left crosswind is your friend, because it helps with the fight against torque and reduces the need for left (power) pedal. Only a complete dimwit would prefer a right crosswind in a hover to a left.
EP for "the onset of LTE?" Don't be asleep. Stab the left pedal fast and as far as it will go to stop the yaw. |
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Msg ID:
2716211 |
Some people really think LTE is a myth? +3/-3
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Author:Reality Check
1/8/2022 11:38:38 AM
Reply to: 2716200
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LTE is just an excuse for pilot error and getting way behind the aircraft. High DA and certain wind azimuths negatively affect tail rotor performance. It's your job to compensate accordingly. If the helicopter starts spinning, you did a crap job operating the machinery. |
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Msg ID:
2716213 |
28 min VIDEO????? +2/-1
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Author:NO THANKS
1/8/2022 12:17:13 PM
Reply to: 2716211
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OMG i was about 2min into that video and about threw up....seriously you can find more info that ISN'T 28 MIN long video... |
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Msg ID:
2716214 |
28 min VIDEO????? +2/-0
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Author:you have the attention span
1/8/2022 12:18:11 PM
Reply to: 2716213
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of a squirell on meth |
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Msg ID:
2716215 |
28 min VIDEO????? +0/-3
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Author:my time is worth more
1/8/2022 12:20:25 PM
Reply to: 2716214
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than watching a 28 min. video....when I can read it in shorter time.....you must have been "one of those instructors" that made each lesson snooze time.....or better yet a CWO 5 azzzzzhat who had a god complex of knowing everything....get over your ego... |
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Msg ID:
2716217 |
Some people really think LTE is a myth? +2/-0
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Author:UH-1H pilot in the 80's
1/8/2022 12:37:06 PM
Reply to: 2716200
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I remember doing the Performance Planning Card and having to know what direction (in degrees) to avoid so we wouldn't get into LTE, and what windspeed it would occur at.
I also remember hovering into Bad Kreuznach in a flight of 5 for the hot FARP and knowing as we made our hovering turns that we would be in the LTE window. Sure enough, when we entered it, the helicopter got into LTE. We ended up hovering at about a 30 degree angle during those turns. Only time I've ever experienced LTE.... |
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Msg ID:
2716234 |
Some people really think LTE is a myth? +1/-2
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Author:206 Guy
1/8/2022 2:43:41 PM
Reply to: 2716200
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As long as it's turning, the tail rotor never stops producing thrust. It doesn't cavitate or "stall" or whatever. It ALWAYS produces thrust. As long as you fly within limits, the t/r will produce enough thrust to do the job. Now, there can be fluctuations in t/r thrust, yes. But just as you can get out of m/r VRS by sliding the disk sideways, as soon as the inflow to the t/r changes...voila...it's back in business doing what it's supposed to do. If the a/c is going round and round at full left pedal, it's because you're either pulling too much torque (over maximum permissable), or you've allowed your m/r and t/r rpm to droop and you've lost thrust. Either way, a crash is imminent. Getting into such a predicament and then blaming the aircraft is the mark of a very poor pilot. |
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Msg ID:
2716236 |
Some people really think LTE is a myth? +0/-2
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Author:yeah but
1/8/2022 2:53:27 PM
Reply to: 2716234
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if the aircraft is spinning, the TR may not be able to produce enought thrust to stop the spinning with any torgue setting. you also didn't explain how you get the TR into clean air. voila is not an answer. |
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Msg ID:
2716477 |
Say what?! +0/-0
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Author:206 Guy
1/11/2022 10:15:48 AM
Reply to: 2716236
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if the aircraft is spinning, the TR may not be able to produce enought thrust to stop the spinning with any torgue setting. you also didn't explain how you get the TR into clean air. voila is not an answer.
What?! Are you even a pilot? How you get the t/r into clean air? Are you KIDDING me? Man(?) you need to get some understanding of how a helicopter works. The t/r never goes into full, continuous "sideways-VRS" as some belielve. It can experience temporary variations in thrust which can result in unanticipated yaw. The "pilot" needs to recognize that unanticipated/uncommanded yaw quickly AND STOP IT with a timely, sufficient and forceful application of left pedal. That's what you're paid for.
To get into this theoretical and mythical LTE, there must theoretically be some wind, right? Wind that's either directly 90 degrees to the tail rotor which results in that mythical "sideways VRS" that Robbie pilots worry so much about... Or wind from the front-left that blows the main rotor downwash into the tail rotor and theoretically causes - the other thing that Robbie pilots worry about - the tail rotor to become suddenly, completely ineffective. Here's the reality: In either case, as soon as the nose turns even a little bit, the inflow to the t/r has changed an the condition that was causing the fluctuation/variation of t/r thrust does not exist anymore. Voi-friggin-la, Maverick.
The third scenario is a direct and strong tailwind which makes the helicopter want to point itself into the wind. And yes, a 206 hovering with a strong tailwind can be a challenge. You have to be really on top of your game and not become surprised that the helicopter "suddenly" wants to act like a big G-damn weathervane.
Helicopters don't just start spontaneously "spinning around." If you're in one that is, and you're the PIC, you've serious f'-ed things up by operating "outside of the envelope" as we used to say before "pilots" started blaming the aircraft for their screwups. As long as you're abov ETL, you're golden. If/when you fall below ETL, you better be really certain that you understand where the wind is coming from and how it's going to affect those spinny things that your controls are connected to. |
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Msg ID:
2716239 |
Some people really think LTE is a myth? +0/-0
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Author:new technique!
1/8/2022 3:02:31 PM
Reply to: 2716234
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if you're spinning around, moving the cyclic laterally will fix everything. got it! |
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Msg ID:
2716243 |
Whoa... lots of lack of education on TR authority +0/-0
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Author:Anonymous
1/8/2022 3:20:51 PM
Reply to: 2716200
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I know the 206 manual (and OH-58 series for Army guys) is very clear on this when other manuals have almost nothing in them about it. Also, the 206 has a specific EP that states: 1) Pedal - Full Left 2) Cyclic - Forward whereas no other helicopter seems to. |
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Msg ID:
2716268 |
Whoa... lots of lack of education on TR authority +0/-0
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Author:The 206 manual
1/8/2022 6:43:08 PM
Reply to: 2716243
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does not say that |
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Msg ID:
2716245 |
Fenestrons too +0/-0
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Author:Anonymous
1/8/2022 3:39:28 PM
Reply to: 2716200
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP37vfyVrWk
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Msg ID:
2716274 |
Some people really think LTE is a myth? +0/-0
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Author:Shrugger
1/8/2022 8:03:33 PM
Reply to: 2716200
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I know most flight schools just talk about this and never actually demo Lte or a recovery. |
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Msg ID:
2716286 |
They should teach it +0/-0
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Author:Anonymous
1/8/2022 10:35:05 PM
Reply to: 2716274
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This one does a great job of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP37vfyVrWk&t=818s
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Msg ID:
2716578 |
Some people really think LTE is a myth? +1/-0
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Author:To me
1/11/2022 6:42:15 PM
Reply to: 2716200
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LTE is a stall condition akin to the approach to Vortex Ring - always reduce the AOA or power demand before things take the wrong turn. |
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