Click here to close
New Message Alert
List Entire Thread
Msg ID: 2712297 Pilot incapacitation. +3/-0     
Author:Call me skeptical
12/1/2021 2:29:17 PM

So I hear the company is going to start some kind of program for the med crews on what to do if a pilot becomes incapacitated. Since there is always only one set of flight controls when the med crew is on board, how is this supposed to work. They may be able to set up the auto pilot but that only would prolong the inevitable as the auto pilot decouples below v mini. I'm just wondering what they're going to teach them to do after that point. I don't know if I would be able to set it down safely from the copilot seat using the pilot side controls. Possibly. This training can't hurt I guess but I really don't think it will make any difference. Has this been tried anywhere else? I know AEL had some kind of thing but in a 407, 206 or Astar, you are probably screwed if the pilot keels over unless you're only 10 feet off the ground. In cruise, you're dead.



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712298 It's to make med crew feel better +1/-1     
Author:Probably won't make a difference
12/1/2021 2:40:28 PM

Reply to: 2712297
My crew asked, so I gave them a brief overview of the SAS. The most notable takeaway was that I talked them out of trying to crash us into a lake and instead try to running landing/crash us onto a runway with emergency crews available. It's all window dressing, but if it makes them feel better and I'm not involved go for it. Maybe it'll help them one day if they get moved to a base with an older, "problem" pilot.


Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712311 It's to make med crew feel better +0/-0     
Author:What is the problem with the older
12/1/2021 4:31:37 PM

Reply to: 2712298

Pilot? He is probably healthier than you.



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712312 the guy that fell asleep was in his thirties. (NT) +0/-0     
Author:go figure
12/1/2021 4:42:00 PM

Reply to: 2712311


Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712333 Age comes for us all +1/-0     
Author:Amigo
12/1/2021 7:17:39 PM

Reply to: 2712311
From John Hopkins: Risk factors for stroke that can’t be changed: Older age. For each decade of life after age 55, your chance of having a stroke more than doubles. We've got multiple pilots over 60, 1 is pushing 70. There's a good chance nothing will ever happen, but I've seen more strokes in 67 year olds than 35 year olds.


Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712699 Age comes for us all +4/-0     
Author:that explains why there are
12/4/2021 6:10:58 PM

Reply to: 2712333

so many accidents caused by pilot incapacitation after suffering a stroke.  The NTSB data base is just filled with them.....oh wait.....

nevermind.



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712299 Prolonging the inevitable  +3/-1     
Author:Might help
12/1/2021 2:43:20 PM

Reply to: 2712297
Even if engaging the SAS and flying circles, or whatever else, only buys time maybe it's enough for me/whoever to regain consciousness. Push some epi, see what happens?


Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712303 Piot incapacitation. +3/-0     
Author:King of dumb ideas
12/1/2021 3:35:34 PM

Reply to: 2712297
I often come up with bad ideas. Usually after a few cocktails but this idea is really beyond anything even I could come up with.


Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712305 Akin to the AOPA pinch hunter course. +1/-1     
Author:Step:
12/1/2021 3:45:59 PM

Reply to: 2712297
Step 1 - engage autopilot Step 2 - wish you had an autopilot Step 3 - sent family and friend fairwell over 121.5 Step 4 - if you had autopilot, calculate where you'll be when you run out of fuel S


Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712307 Akin to the AOPA pinch hunter course. +0/-0     
Author:step 5
12/1/2021 4:07:14 PM

Reply to: 2712305

what the hell you talking about because one through 4 make zero sense bro. maybe it's supposed to be funny.



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712314 They bought their ticket (NT) +2/-0     
Author:I say let um die! ( Airplane quote)
12/1/2021 4:59:05 PM

Reply to: 2712307


Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712442 Akin to the AOPA pinch hunter course. +0/-0     
Author:It made sense
12/2/2021 12:15:59 PM

Reply to: 2712307

and was funny i think the bro thing is affecting any intelligence you may have had



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712316 Piot incapacitation. +1/-0     
Author:Yes
12/1/2021 5:04:46 PM

Reply to: 2712297

been tried many times.

Med crews get only more full of their magnificence and quickly assume they have the left seat role mastered for all eternity.

Go figure from there.



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712317 Piot incapacitation. +0/-0     
Author:wait wut
12/1/2021 5:31:27 PM

Reply to: 2712316

so the med crews were able to control the helicopter from the opposite side and land it? if so, great.



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712326 Piot incapacitation. +0/-0     
Author:Why don’t you make up a phony
12/1/2021 6:33:44 PM

Reply to: 2712317

Story as you go, and then wait wut?



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712327 Piot incapacitation. +1/-0     
Author:Well
12/1/2021 6:35:52 PM

Reply to: 2712297

Well in theory its a great idea....  Pilot has a major issues...  crew from left sets up auto pilot and then some how someway gets the aircraf low enought to crash and they get out....   

In an airplane i can see this working... but a helicopter .. not so much..

EMS configures 407...  how do they climb around the post and even get to an autopilot...  Astar...  guess they eject the pilot out the door and he takes the cyclic with him.  

Not realistic on any level.  



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712340 why don't you  +0/-0     
Author:bentwrench
12/1/2021 7:34:47 PM

Reply to: 2712327

ask "the company"?



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712344 why don't you  +0/-0     
Author:because
12/1/2021 8:20:50 PM

Reply to: 2712340

I really don't care that much.



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712347 Piot incapacitation. +0/-0     
Author:Back seater
12/1/2021 8:41:40 PM

Reply to: 2712297

I took some Helicopter training so I could land one in a emergency. I have practiced steping out on the skid with my pilot and pulling him from the helicopter then climbing in the seat and landing. Not a problem. 

For Your Eyes Only, darlin "Bond" 



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712368 Piot incapacitation. +3/-0     
Author:It's been done before
12/2/2021 12:11:42 AM

Reply to: 2712297

There is history.  Med crew actually helped get an aircraft under control and help the pilot get enough wits about himself to land the aircraft.  So yea, it may not happen to you, but this pilot owes his life to "gasp" a paramedic.  



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712374 Piot incapacitation. +0/-0     
Author:there is a reason
12/2/2021 12:48:36 AM

Reply to: 2712368

we don't wear parachutes in a helicopter....if you need one, the odds that you can use it are slim to none.

The same with pilot incapacitation...waste of time.  The only one I'm aware of the pilot fell asleep and rolled inverted...I don't think engaging the autopilot would have helped.

If the pilot kills you, odds are he's awake and working at it.



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712379 Piot incapacitation. +0/-0     
Author:Yeah but
12/2/2021 2:29:58 AM

Reply to: 2712368

you aren't saying the medic did anything other that talk to the pilot. That's not what this is about.



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712474 Piot incapacitation. +1/-0     
Author:Anonymous
12/2/2021 2:22:46 PM

Reply to: 2712368

so who does the "gasp" paramedic owe his life to? or did he really land the helicopter? hmm...the rest of the story.



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712380 Piot incapacitation. +0/-0     
Author:fuel
12/2/2021 3:11:05 AM

Reply to: 2712297

Show them where the fuel gauge is and tell them to hope for a zero reading,



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712395 Piot incapacitation. +1/-0     
Author:anony
12/2/2021 7:48:22 AM

Reply to: 2712380

Depends a lot on aircraft, any aircraft without an autopilot or basic SAS if I go unconscious its a lawn dart in seconds.  On our EC135 we have at least shown them to engage heading/ALT hold, make sure collective is at 8 on the FLI and then use the SAT phone to call dispatch.  The goal being someone gets the call patched to another company pilot who can help them down by loading and having the autopilot fly an ILS/LPV approach.  When the aircraft switches to ALT hold at the runway, lower the collective and as the aircraft starts to slow it will eventually fall through 65', as ground contact is about to occur switch both engine to off and hold on.  Probably going to slide off the runway and roll over and be a very dramatic crash but there is a chance you might live......maybe....

Thats about all you can hope for but I tell them if I go you are pretty much done for.  Autopilot is always on for me once above 60kts and I only kick it off 2 miles out so odd are if I go unconscious the autopilot is already on.



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712420 Piot incapacitation. +1/-0     
Author:I read it.
12/2/2021 10:35:27 AM

Reply to: 2712415

the pilot was not incapacitated. He was concious the entire time. He landed the helicopter. They claim the Helisas saved the day but I can say withh 99% certainty he was not coupled to it. The Helisas will not fly a continuous turn without turning the heading bug before rollout. No way was this happening. The paramedic said he was moving the cyclic which probably happened by highly doubtful it had any effect on the outcome. The whole story was pure AEL PR/marketing bullsh*t. 



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712422 Piot incapacitation. +2/-0     
Author:Cutting edge AEL
12/2/2021 10:49:35 AM

Reply to: 2712420

If anybody has figured out how to turn a near tragedy into "we saved the day with our high tech 206!" it would be AEL.

BTW, the helisas ain't cheap and they deserve credit for installing it in their aircraft. 



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712432 Piot incapacitation. (NT) +0/-0     
Author:got a ntsb # on that?
12/2/2021 11:41:42 AM

Reply to: 2712420


Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712473 Piot incapacitation. +0/-0     
Author:uh no
12/2/2021 2:21:24 PM

Reply to: 2712432

I guess you have to told the NTSB only does accident reports on accidents.



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712577 Really? You may want to check that out genius. (NT) +0/-0     
Author:Wow.
12/3/2021 10:22:38 AM

Reply to: 2712473


Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712424 "Piot incapacitation" Happened in the Gulf of Mexico +2/-0     
Author:olderendirt
12/2/2021 10:59:02 AM

Reply to: 2712297

some years back, a 206.

The guy in back held the pilot upright, clear of the controls, left seat flew the aircraft into a somewhat controlled crash. Pilot and back seat pax survived, left seat pax killed.



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712427 Got an NTSB report number for that? (NT) +0/-0     
Author:Anonymous
12/2/2021 11:19:00 AM

Reply to: 2712424


Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712475 Piot incapacitation. +0/-0     
Author:Airevac did it
12/2/2021 2:27:08 PM

Reply to: 2712297

Airevac had a pilot die so the med crew had to land the helicopter. They rolled out training to all AMGH so all of us can learn how to land the helicopter if the pilot dies.



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712477 Piot incapacitation. +0/-0     
Author:okay
12/2/2021 2:33:16 PM

Reply to: 2712475

I'm interested to hear what the training consists of.



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712558 Busy work while dying +1/-0     
Author:Astronaut checklists
12/3/2021 7:07:46 AM

Reply to: 2712297

It keeps them from screaming if you give them hope and busy work.



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712563 Busy work while dying +0/-0     
Author:What do you care if
12/3/2021 8:07:23 AM

Reply to: 2712558

you're incapacitated 



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712580 Piot incapacitation. +0/-0     
Author:Tonic Master
12/3/2021 10:59:42 AM

Reply to: 2712297

If we are looking for answers, doesn't Cirrus have some form of automatic Descent and Land system in place?

Maybe its not feasible for a helicopter but ???



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712656 Piot incapacitation. +5/-0     
Author:solution in search of a problem
12/4/2021 12:54:57 AM

Reply to: 2712297

crashing in bad weather kills HEMS crews, not pilot incapacitation. 

clowns.



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712813 Video Demonstration +0/-0     
Author:HeloHead
12/6/2021 6:12:31 PM

Reply to: 2712297

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN5hXeR8mz4

Also shows a new method for wheelchair operations integrated into HAA!



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712847 Video Demonstration +0/-0     
Author:Blofield
12/7/2021 2:46:35 AM

Reply to: 2712813

Said his helicopter pilot was one of his least useful employees. At least we are more useful than HR folks.



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2712930 Video Demonstration +0/-0     
Author:cheap
12/7/2021 10:42:48 PM

Reply to: 2712847

Just give the pilot a jab of one of those goodies from your goody bag.



Reply  Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2713532 Pilot incapacitation. +1/-0     
Author:Just another EMS'r
12/14/2021 8:32:21 AM

Reply to: 2712297

Some of the med crew members here think they're better pilots than the real pilots anyway.  Don't know what they're worried about.....



Reply  Return-To-Index