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Msg ID: 2708303 I really think this deserves its own thread +8/-1     
Author:from below.
10/21/2021 8:58:25 AM

Can this possibly be real? 


Go onto the Faa website.


https://www.faa.gov/foia/foia_coordinators/regional_service_centers/?region=asw   under the freedom of information act there is a request form that you fill out requesting All information of the supposedly violation. You can use a email that is not one you normally use on the site. Gather the date, time and  as close to the location of the incident as possibl.


this happened to me this pass May. Landing at a school to pick up my son. With prior approval and landing site.


in class "C" and having to circle about 7 minutes before my LZ was cleared. And the wife that teaches at the school over seeing the LZ and no one out on school campus except her (kids were still in last hour)


BUT the principal didn't inform the school deputies of the arrangement.


Well here comes Barnie Fife coming around the corner all ready talking to dispatch to contact the Faa.


he proceeded to pull me out of the helicopter before shutdown and I told him he'd better back off until I shut down or he'd be responsible for the safety of others.


principal showed up and straighten things out. Just had to wait about 10 minutes after the crap until we could take off.  200' agl contacted tower with intentions and approval ...500' agl 04X  we have a number for you to call.


call was to the tower  asking for contact information


a week later Faa called and asked what happened  proceed to answer.. but before he could talk to me  he had to send me the pilots bill of rights have me read it and email him back stating that I understood it.


He ask that I send him a statement of MY VIOLATION. I proceeded to explain that I wasn't reckless OR put anyone or anything  in danger  as he was stating.


this is what I sent him.   short and nothing more!


Mr. ???????,
On May 14 1:32 PM local, I picked up my son at a designated landing area on school grounds with weeks prior permission and approval from the principal.
The School security was not informed of my arrival.


statment from the deputy   


Good morning,
In regards to the helicopter landing that took place on 5/14/21 at the landing occurred at approximately 1331 hours in the rear of campus. Pilot landed the aircraft approximately 40-50 yards from the 600 building on the Northwest Corner of campus right at main dismissal. When I approached the aircraft at approximately 1335 hours, there were already more than 40 children gathering in the rear of the building while the helicopter was grounded with rotor still slightly spinning.
Upon instructing Mr pilot to shut down the aircraft and exit said craft, he did so and advised me that he had permission from Principal  to pick up his son from school in the helicopter. Mr Principal met with all parties in the rear of the campus and confirmed that permission was granted, however, he stated that 2:00pm was the time he instructed Mr pilot to land and pick up. Mr pilot said his son told him 1:30 pm was acceptable so that is where the mix up occurred. Full-time Sheriff Deputies who man the campus of the school daily were not made aware of prior approval of the landing which caused emergency response from multiple Deputies. It seems as though the event was simply an event designed to draw attention, especially when the other parent works at the school and drives to/from daily.
In my opinion, there are far too many dangers involved with landing an aircraft within close proximity to a building, especially a school building with children. The school owns several acres of property which could have more safely been used to land the aircraft. While students stayed a safe distance from the helicopter, there were simply too many moving parts to include hundreds of cars utilizing a roadway in the front and rear of school. Had Law Enforcement been advised prior to, permission would not have been given by us due to the many variable and concerns for safety.
Marty the deputy 
Monday, May 17, 2021 7:38 AM
 (FAA)
Helicopter Incident
Respectfully


About a week or so  later the Faa called me and ask me what I learned from this incident (keep in mind I didn't see or know how many statements were mad to the Faa)


I kept asking what incident or violation. He kept repeating reckless and indangermen.


and I kept repeating that  no one was any danger or was I reckless check the records of the tower and the voice recordings where I circled until the LZ was clear.


well the Faa stated that he had several statements from deputies and a few from school officials and parents


and who would a judge believe the cops or me. he stated the judge would believe the officials ,...not the PILOT   The one in the drivers seat.


well we agreed to both disagree.


so I told him probably what I may have learned was to trust but verify


Faa informed me that I will be on watch for 2 years and told don't screw up again   I believe this was a form of Intimidation


under the FOIA I obtained the 2 statements and  that  son of a B!!,h at the  Faa was lying to me. There was only one complaint / statement from the  Cops. The other was from the principal explaining the permission and the mixup.


Well I don't trust the FAA  but I am verifying my records.


if you made it this far


just my .02 of what happened to me


 


 



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Msg ID: 2708306 I really think this deserves its own thread +5/-0     
Author:Regular Rabbit
10/21/2021 9:28:52 AM

Reply to: 2708303

I always contact the LEO with jurisdiction of any off airport site and ask for help with LZ security. They eat that stuff up and are now on your side to keep the Karens away.  You surprised them and they don't like surprises.  Your f-up was trusting a school principal to do a job he was not competent for.



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Msg ID: 2708308 I really think this deserves its own thread +1/-3     
Author:you always ask for the cops
10/21/2021 10:15:16 AM

Reply to: 2708306

to show up off airport? lol



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Msg ID: 2708312 I really think this deserves its own thread +0/-0     
Author:to LOL
10/21/2021 10:59:33 AM

Reply to: 2708308

Horse to water....



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Msg ID: 2708317 I really think this deserves its own thread +1/-2     
Author:anybody
10/21/2021 11:20:02 AM

Reply to: 2708312

that says the cops love to show up to your lz is telling me, without telling me, they are not a pilot



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Msg ID: 2708309 I really think this deserves its own thread +0/-0     
Author:Slug
10/21/2021 10:27:23 AM

Reply to: 2708306

  I rarely (if I can even recall one case) contact LE to land off site.  In fact, in the last 15 plus years at my current occupation, I have never personally requested their assistance.  They may have shown up after the fact and established a security peremeter but it was without my request.  Could be the big company logo and FIRE on the side.  I routinely receive requests for static displays at schools for "career day" show and tells.  Again, I have never requested the local police for security assistance.  Some of these schools are inside Class C and D airspace as well.  Now had it been my private aircraft where I had not been invited or not an an incident, I would defininitely think twice about landing at a school to pick up my child.  Sure, the Principal might have given you an OK, but there are too many questions and others perceptions that make it not the best idea.  



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Msg ID: 2708344 I really think this deserves its own thread +2/-0     
Author:Emser
10/21/2021 2:57:14 PM

Reply to: 2708309

For EMS operators it's different. On a call we pretty much always fall under a form of local ordinances that allow us to land with out permission. in California, non-emergent operations INVO a school require prior approval from DOT. Again, for EMS we are given a ton of leeway.

The OP was a private operator picking his son up from school. I would not have trusted the principal to handle all local communication. I certainly would have reached out to school security myself. That said, I likely never would have done this. It always causes more problems than it's worth. 



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Msg ID: 2708310 I really think this deserves its own thread +0/-0     
Author:Media Guy
10/21/2021 10:41:55 AM

Reply to: 2708303

I can't speak about the current situation as I retired ten years ago after more than 30 years of flying media aircraft.  But in that time I landed helicopters in school yards, residential areas, football fields and even landed a fixed wing aircraft in a large parking lot a couple times.  For special landings my secret to not getting in trouble was to notify everyone I could think of in advance; FAA, local police and fire and anyone else I thought cause a problem.  Don't trust others who say they will.  Also, have good security on the ground.  Obviously, a lot depends on local jurisdictions.  Some demanded insurance and others wanted fire trucks on scene. And some requests were outright denied.  I'm sorry this happened to the original poster.  It usually was a great learning experience for students.  



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Msg ID: 2708311 I really think this deserves its own thread +0/-0     
Author:If You Are The Same Guy From
10/21/2021 10:49:40 AM

Reply to: 2708303

Below, you said it was pure fantasy.



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Msg ID: 2708315 I really think this deserves its own thread +0/-2     
Author:I am
10/21/2021 11:18:02 AM

Reply to: 2708311

and I do



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Msg ID: 2708319 What is the deal of YOU wanting to land at a  +14/-3     
Author:school to pickup your son?
10/21/2021 11:44:19 AM

Reply to: 2708303

Was it some kind of "show-and-tell" day?  Does it give you and your son a big head?  Impress all of the other kids and female teachers?  You and the company you fly for are fools.  This wasn't a company sponsored event by taking the helicopter out of service to support the community and the ENTIRE school but your selfish "look at me and my son" personal promotion.  Reckless flying - probably not.  Reckless idiot personally - yes.

What's next for you?  Prior permission landing at Hooters to grab lunch?

Next there will be an airline pilot (who heard about your story) landing a 737 on the Interstate next to a rest stop because his wife, stepdaughter, and school in 5 buses returning from a field trip & they just so happen to be there - preplanned? 

Company you work for - Me, your boss - you're fired... even if I gave you permission, just now resended.



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Msg ID: 2708320 What is the deal of YOU wanting to land at a  +4/-1     
Author:so
10/21/2021 11:58:19 AM

Reply to: 2708319

op shows up half hour before he's supposed to after only talking to the principal, lands close to a building after he waited for somebody to clear the lz because there's kids all over the place and what could possibly go wrong. story is either total bs or he's a complete idiot. I'm going with both.



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Msg ID: 2708324 What is the deal of YOU wanting to land at a  +0/-0     
Author:if a cop pulls you out of a vehicle
10/21/2021 1:16:23 PM

Reply to: 2708320

your stupidass is going to jail. 

"I told him he'd better back off until I shut down or he'd be responsible for the safety of others" what? yeah, I'm so sure THAT happened.

lol what a moron



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Msg ID: 2708330 What is the deal of YOU wanting to land at a  +2/-1     
Author:Big sexy
10/21/2021 2:13:18 PM

Reply to: 2708324

law enforcement doesn't have authority over aircraft. A town cop cannot dictate where you land or don't land.

this is a non issue. fight it even faa doesn't know what they are talking about 99% of the time.

it's not reckless to land at a school. Lawyer up!



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Msg ID: 2708338 What is the deal of YOU wanting to land at a  +0/-2     
Author:all three of those statements
10/21/2021 2:37:20 PM

Reply to: 2708330

are completely false



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Msg ID: 2708345 What is the deal of YOU wanting to land at a  +1/-1     
Author:Big sexy
10/21/2021 3:13:44 PM

Reply to: 2708338

all three are spot on!



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Msg ID: 2708350 What is the deal of YOU wanting to land at a  +0/-1     
Author:Big sexy
10/21/2021 3:37:49 PM

Reply to: 2708338

all three are spot on!



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Msg ID: 2708351 What is the deal of YOU wanting to land at a  +3/-1     
Author:Big Sexy
10/21/2021 3:40:43 PM

Reply to: 2708338

1# Cops do not have authority to tell you to land... we fly under federal regulations, not local town penal codes.

2# Faa is made up of mostly guys that could not cut it in the civilian world. Hence why i havent lost a regulation  argument with the FAA.

 

3# landing at a school with permission is not Careless and reckless. Just because the  guy in the faa says it is doesn't make it true. remeber that guy could cut it in the civil aviation side. 

 

How many times have the police pulled you ovr while flying?

 



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Msg ID: 2708353 What is the deal of YOU wanting to land at a  +0/-1     
Author:how to tell me you are an internet
10/21/2021 3:47:25 PM

Reply to: 2708351

pilot in three sentences or less. 



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Msg ID: 2709030 What is the deal of YOU wanting to land at a  +0/-0     
Author:04X
10/27/2021 12:00:20 PM

Reply to: 2708320

That was my mistake in a way... after two cancelations.. three weeks had passed.. however confirmation was re-confirmend the day before.  Just the time was not re-confirmed.

And there were no students outside rear of the building (school was still in scession waiting for the final bell).

Actually, after every thing was sorted out, the cops were cool about it and it became a show and tell for the interested studends,teachers and even the cops.

I was not able to lift-off until 14:00 and the show and tell lasted until 14:45

If all i got from the FAA is a Chewing and finger pointing   It was well worth the time to answer the students questions



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Msg ID: 2708331 What is the deal of YOU wanting to land at a  +2/-1     
Author:I Landed At A Hooters With Prior
10/21/2021 2:14:33 PM

Reply to: 2708319

Permission before. So What?



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Msg ID: 2708339 What is the deal of YOU wanting to land at a  +1/-4     
Author:uh
10/21/2021 2:42:47 PM

Reply to: 2708331

nobody cares that you landed at hooters. wait, why would you bother doing that? of all the places to go in your r22, you pick a hooters, which makes perfect sense when you think about it. I bet the girls still paid no attention to you. lol



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Msg ID: 2708362 What is the deal of YOU wanting to land at a  +1/-1     
Author:If You Are Reply #319 YOU CARE
10/21/2021 5:27:25 PM

Reply to: 2708339

Because you mentioned landing at HOOTERS. And no, they didn't notice me.



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Msg ID: 2709025 What is the deal of YOU wanting to land at a  +0/-0     
Author:04X
10/27/2021 11:36:11 AM

Reply to: 2708319

Seeing from your  post... you sound like the type of boss that would go back on his word and throw a person under the bus, instead of standing up for your decissions.

 



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Msg ID: 2708328 Ace Up My Sleeve +2/-0     
Author:James Lander
10/21/2021 1:59:19 PM

Reply to: 2708303

After getting property owner permission, and making certain I am not violating any city, county, state, or Federal statutes, regulations or laws: I always notify the local Fire Department that I intend to land off airport/helicopter and ask if they would like to standby with a fire truck and EMT.  The Fire Department is usually very happy to standby and assist with securing the area.  If the Fire Department has any "safety" concerns about my intended operation they will tell me and we work together in the spirit of reducing hazards to as low as resonably probable - or when the Fire Department is concerned, I request their help in finding a safer area near by.  I never ask the police unless the Fire Depatrment suggest they need police assistance.  The police (to include airborne law enforcement) are far more difficult to work with.



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Msg ID: 2708352 Ace Up My Sleeve +2/-1     
Author:why would a pilot think even for
10/21/2021 3:44:24 PM

Reply to: 2708328

a second that it would be a good idea to call the freakin fire dept when landing off airport? can't you people figure out how to land someplace with calling the governor and the national guard "to assist securing the area"? 

then we have asshats like the op that lands next to a school without nothing but a call to the principal!. 



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Msg ID: 2708357 Ace Up My Sleeve +0/-1     
Author:every time I land my r22 at hooters
10/21/2021 3:53:26 PM

Reply to: 2708352

I call the fire department because of course



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Msg ID: 2708358 Ace Up My Sleeve +2/-1     
Author:Yep
10/21/2021 4:45:42 PM

Reply to: 2708352

Fire dept. sets up LZ's for medevac's in Pa. so they would be the ones to call for off AP LZ.



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Msg ID: 2708360 Ace Up My Sleeve +1/-2     
Author:uh, say wut
10/21/2021 5:06:37 PM

Reply to: 2708358

you are not EMS. big balls thinking you are entitled to use those resources bro



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Msg ID: 2708363 Ace Up My Sleeve +2/-1     
Author:Wrong
10/21/2021 5:31:53 PM

Reply to: 2708360

I guess you never flown in the LHV area eh!?!?!?!?!



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Msg ID: 2708366 Ace Up My Sleeve +1/-1     
Author:I have
10/21/2021 5:39:10 PM

Reply to: 2708363

and all over PA but I never once thought about calling the fire department mostly because tying up emergency services just to feed my ego is not something I would consider. 



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Msg ID: 2708971 OP +0/-0     
Author:04X
10/26/2021 9:19:43 PM

Reply to: 2708303

I am the orginial poster. On FOIA FAA website is available to all.  You can use, as I did my email.It took about 3 months for a response 

As far as the negative posters out there...be is as you may..I was just passing on my experience with being wrongly accused of a FAA violation. I was informed by the Faa that they had several statements of a violation.

in which they did not.

My post contain straight copy and paste from the FOIA pdf sent to me. I edited/deleted names and locations.

It was not a fanticy... and why would a "call this number" be one!!
I have been flying since 1985 and never had a # to call, or a " step into my office" meeting!!

I work at being a safe pilot,for myself,crew and passengers.

The helicopter was my own....(how many of you negative responders and say that)  And I don't have to explain as to WHY he was picked up at school.. its too lengthy and probably gather too much negative posts.  AND it's not the first time in 3 years... AND none of your business

I mostly enjoy reading justhelicopters.  BUT the negative remarks from most .. when some posters from are looking for some  professional experience is degrading to the future industry!

04X

 



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Msg ID: 2709060 OP +0/-1     
Author:Anonymous
10/27/2021 4:31:49 PM

Reply to: 2708971

"the helicopter was my own...how many of you negative responders can say that"

I have heard s**t like this for years from you rich people who think that your money is the final argument. Fact is that in practice, yes, it is the final argument.

But nothing can change the fact that you may be rich but you are stupid. You did a stupid thing for no good reason and you did it in a stupid way. And now you're in a spot of trouble for it, and this you just can't understand.

I mean, you're rich, right? So what is anybody pestering you? Can't you just do what you want, any way you want, any time you want? The world sucks. Right? 



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Msg ID: 2709087 Yes,Stupidly RICH ! +0/-0     
Author:04X
10/27/2021 10:28:48 PM

Reply to: 2709060

Now,are you happy or more teed off? LMFAO
You must have nothing to do.  And all day long to do it!



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Msg ID: 2709166 I guess you told me.  +0/-0     
Author: ouch, ow
10/28/2021 4:33:00 PM

Reply to: 2709087

ive got a lot of money, why can't i do whatever i want, why are the stupid cops and faa hassling me, blah blah blah, waaaah waaaah waaaaaaah



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Msg ID: 2709189 I guess you told me.  +0/-0     
Author:Why Are You Crying In Accusing
10/28/2021 10:33:51 PM

Reply to: 2709166

Someone of crying?



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