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Msg ID: 2704443 14 hour rule +7/-2     
Author:AMC UNION
9/20/2021 9:21:36 PM

We succesfully negotiated that no pilot needs to take a patient on a flight if it goes over 12 hours. All AMC pilots will be immune to being fired as long as they work a full 12 hour shift. Beyond that is up to you, optional. 

 



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Msg ID: 2704444 14 hour rule +4/-1     
Author:No Pilot Is Immune To Being Fired
9/20/2021 9:27:54 PM

Reply to: 2704443

If they can't use one excuse, they will use another.



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Msg ID: 2706229 14 hour rule +0/-0     
Author:Well,
10/5/2021 6:15:54 PM

Reply to: 2704444

I'd say that's a basis to investigate intimidation.



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Msg ID: 2704460 14 hour rule +2/-3     
Author:Lol
9/20/2021 10:18:31 PM

Reply to: 2704443

Wow what a win! Lol hope that was worth all the union dues... lol hilarious 



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Msg ID: 2704463 14 hour rule +3/-1     
Author:Not having to do that is
9/20/2021 10:29:32 PM

Reply to: 2704460

a pretty big deal in my book. 



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Msg ID: 2705798 14 hour rule +0/-0     
Author:Ur
10/2/2021 9:11:07 PM

Reply to: 2704460

a real winner

Unions suck but ur salary would suck worse if not for them

IWII



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Msg ID: 2704493 Your shift is 12 hours! Can be extended ONLY for a patient flight.  +3/-1     
Author:Awesome job the Union!!!
9/21/2021 10:37:23 AM

Reply to: 2704443

Keeps you from having to do extra busy work to cover for worthless managers and MedCrews. No requirement to stay after for a meeting or whine session. No forced to work a shift then go take a pee test. This is a huge win for the union. I don't think your anti union troll post will go as planned. You can always volunteer to work later if you want though I hear the pilots say you are I'm your car at the 12 hour mark at Tampa airport and don't even do shift change anyway and that you always find a treason time turn a late flight down... 



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Msg ID: 2704495 14 hour rule...how do you know? +0/-0     
Author:GetReal
9/21/2021 10:42:20 AM

Reply to: 2704443

I haven't heard from the Union, except about the COVID vaccine. When will this info be given to the pilots?



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Msg ID: 2704496 It’s already in the CBA. Been there for over 12 years +2/-0     
Author:Schedules of Service Article
9/21/2021 10:49:24 AM

Reply to: 2704495

Union referenced it in last email as a reminder



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Msg ID: 2704499 CBA Article 16.1 page A-20 +2/-0     
Author:States:
9/21/2021 11:51:05 AM

Reply to: 2704496

QUOTE: "A normal schedule shift "SHALL NOT" exceed twelve (12) hours."



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Msg ID: 2704513 "Duty Ready" at beginning of shift, so +0/-0     
Author:shift starts 15 minutes early
9/21/2021 1:41:00 PM

Reply to: 2704499

Section 16.7

To facilitate customer and Company needs the oncoming Pilot will be duty-ready, as defined in
Appendix A, Section 9, at the beginning of his scheduled shift.

Appendix A

Duty Ready: To facilitate customer and Company needs the oncoming Pilot will be duty ready
at the beginning of their scheduled shift. Duty ready is defined as being available to initiate and
conduct revenue or non-revenue flights. The expectation is that a Pilot will accomplish all
required Federal Aviation Regulation and General Operations Manual actions within the time
period that precedes their duty shift.



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Msg ID: 2704515 14 hour rule, AMC pilots must show up early +1/-0     
Author:and don't get paid for the preflight
9/21/2021 1:45:02 PM

Reply to: 2704443

AMC requires pilots to show up early to check weather and pre-flight so they are "duty ready" when their shift begins and they are not paid for that time before their shift starts.

From the CBA:

Duty Ready: To facilitate customer and Company needs the oncoming Pilot will be duty ready
at the beginning of their scheduled shift. Duty ready is defined as being available to initiate and
conduct revenue or non-revenue flights. The expectation is that a Pilot will accomplish all
required Federal Aviation Regulation and General Operations Manual actions within the time
period that precedes their duty shift.



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Msg ID: 2704533 14 hour rule, AMC pilots must show up early +3/-0     
Author:looks like your
9/21/2021 2:40:54 PM

Reply to: 2704515

duty time starts before your shift begins, and you don't get paid for it.

 

Nice Union work.



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Msg ID: 2704551 And your obligation is 12 hours from the time you clock in (NT) +0/-2     
Author:Reading comprehension is hard
9/21/2021 4:32:53 PM

Reply to: 2704533


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Msg ID: 2704566 it appears to be for you +1/-0     
Author:maybe take a class?
9/21/2021 5:53:38 PM

Reply to: 2704551

The expectation is that a Pilot will accomplish all required Federal Aviation Regulation and General Operations Manual actions within the time period that precedes their duty shift.



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Msg ID: 2704611 it appears to be for you +0/-0     
Author:duty is not the shift
9/21/2021 10:56:12 PM

Reply to: 2704566

Duty begins when a pilot clocks in 15 minutes early but pay begins when the shift starts at 7:00 and ends 12 hours later.

I think California pilots get paid for that 15 minutes preceding their shift but could be mistaken.

The Union needs to fix this problem for all AMC pilots!



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Msg ID: 2704616 sux to be you, get a job where you get paid (NT) +0/-0     
Author:when you start work.
9/21/2021 11:10:00 PM

Reply to: 2704611


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Msg ID: 2704574 And your obligation is 12 hours from the time you clock in +0/-0     
Author:Nope
9/21/2021 7:03:04 PM

Reply to: 2704551

12 hours starts at the top of the hour. The 15-20 minutes of getting weather, pre-flight, etc. are not included in the 12-hour shift, start before the top of the hour, and are not paid. The Union says they're working on this issue for the next contract. Tongue Out



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Msg ID: 2704575 they're working on it? +0/-0     
Author:Let's see...
9/21/2021 7:07:40 PM

Reply to: 2704574

you have to be at work, you have to do actual work. and you don't get paid? 

Seems like that might be something that you would want to address at the onset. 

Quit paying dues and when they contact you tell them that you're working on it.



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Msg ID: 2704579 Your only obligation is to be ready to “accept” a flight +0/-1     
Author:Show up on the dot and accept it
9/21/2021 8:09:05 PM

Reply to: 2704575

Complying with contract 



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Msg ID: 2704582 Your only obligation is to be ready to “accept” a flight +2/-0     
Author:If You Are Not On Duty While
9/21/2021 8:46:36 PM

Reply to: 2704579

Preparing to be duty ready, and get injured, no workman's comp.



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Msg ID: 2704584 Your only obligation is to be ready to “accept” a flight +0/-0     
Author:if you think that
9/21/2021 8:56:16 PM

Reply to: 2704582

you're stoned



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Msg ID: 2704585 Your only obligation is to be ready to “accept” a flight +0/-0     
Author:Think what?
9/21/2021 9:03:51 PM

Reply to: 2704584

You either are on duty, or you are not. If you are not on duty, you cannot claim worker's comp for injuries. Also, if you are not on duty, your shift is extended 20-30 minutes per day on hitch. 



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Msg ID: 2704589 Your only obligation is to be ready to “accept” a flight +2/-1     
Author:cmon man get serious
9/21/2021 9:07:34 PM

Reply to: 2704585

you are at work, performing assigned duties for the company. you don't have to punch a clock for them to be responsible. 



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Msg ID: 2704587 It’s workover pay 1.5x for ANY request whether flown or not (NT) +0/-1     
Author:Before shift start.
9/21/2021 9:05:15 PM

Reply to: 2704515


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Msg ID: 2704591 It’s workover pay 1.5x for ANY request whether flown or not +0/-0     
Author:ok sure pal
9/21/2021 9:17:35 PM

Reply to: 2704587

have a good time



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Msg ID: 2704642 What’s wrong, FACTS got your tongue and ruined your troll post (NT) +1/-0     
Author:Bye bye buster
9/22/2021 10:33:29 AM

Reply to: 2704591


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Msg ID: 2706228 14 hour rule, AMC pilots must show up early +2/-0     
Author:There’s
10/5/2021 6:11:38 PM

Reply to: 2704515

no body of labor law that makes working for someone or company not a compensible event.  Couch it how you like, if ur not getting paid for all your time on behalf of ur employer it needs to seriously be reviewed by real attorneys who know what they're looking at.  I don't know any here on JH so beware of the responses.



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Msg ID: 2706235 14 hour rule, AMC pilots must show up early +1/-0     
Author:and are paid for 15 minutes in CA
10/5/2021 7:22:09 PM

Reply to: 2706228

AMC did not compensate pilots for time worked before their scheduled shift until they were sued in California. Time spent preflighting (which was required by AMC) showed on a pilot's timesheet as 15 minutes preflight "UNPAID". 

In May 2020, AMC began paying California pilots for 15 minutes of preflight and no more than that, regardless of when the pilot shows up. So if you clock in 25 minutes early, you only get paid for 15 minutes. It shows up on your timesheet as "PREFLIGHT, 15 minutes"

Your pay ends when your scheduled shift ends even if you stay a bit longer. Your timesheet shows "Shift, 12 hours". If you clock out later, a manager will change it to reflect 12 hours unless you were on a flight or had a meeting, etc.



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Msg ID: 2706239 BS! They NEGOTIATED the terms of DUTY READY +0/-0     
Author:under the RLA. Ratified by VOTE
10/5/2021 8:07:20 PM

Reply to: 2706235
The fact a few rogue pilot's got away with suing, which was NOT settled in court, is mystifying. As a unionized workforce under one CBA, it defies logic that some of the union workforce gets treated SPECIAL than others. Airline pilot's don't get paid for most of their sitting around the airport preflight DUTY either, so it is SUPRISING these few were allow to "class action" outside the certified CLASS under the RLA


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Msg ID: 2706248 BS! They NEGOTIATED the terms of DUTY READY +2/-0     
Author:Maybe
10/5/2021 9:43:21 PM

Reply to: 2706239

airline pilots, under law, should be paid when working under their circumstance you cite.  Just because it appears they don't doesn't make it correct and doesn't represent a legal precedent.



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Msg ID: 2706254 They are, under law, aka RLA. They negotiate for it! No state law (NT) +0/-0     
Author:involved since RLA preempts stage law
10/5/2021 10:01:37 PM

Reply to: 2706248


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Msg ID: 2706230 14 hour rule, AMC pilots must show up early +0/-0     
Author:Clearly
10/5/2021 6:24:47 PM

Reply to: 2704515

on duty which means start of shift and compensible.



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Msg ID: 2706241 Compensatible, under the terns of the negotiated contract!! +0/-0     
Author:Airlines don't pay "preflight" pay!
10/5/2021 8:23:09 PM

Reply to: 2706230
Not even those domiciled in California! The ONLY reason AMC pays it is because they want to, not because the lost any law suit, and in doing so, they compensate unionized pilot's differently; pots wh apparently negotiated their own terms outside the union's sole representation designation. Who needs a union now if you can negotiate on your own for a special subset of class and craft employees under the RLA! The "union" has don a disservice to the rest of their members here by not stepping in and declaring their sole representation rights!


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Msg ID: 2706250 Compensatible, under the terns of the negotiated contract!! +1/-0     
Author:Doubt
10/5/2021 9:57:05 PM

Reply to: 2706241

the company want to, probably they looked at the whole thing and decided to do so based on the potential adverse consequences that could have snowballed across the pilot cadre and years of compensation behavior - a Pandora's box sort of thing.

Not sure how the union fits into private law suits with respect to jurisdiction.  I suspect being a union member does not disallow private litigation they fail to undertake.  Lots of points of view.



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Msg ID: 2706255 Since state law was not applicable, they had no end to worry (NT) +0/-0     
Author:about it. It would have been tossed
10/5/2021 10:03:45 PM

Reply to: 2706250


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Msg ID: 2707147 Since state law was not applicable, they had no end to worry +0/-0     
Author:Be
10/13/2021 9:27:07 AM

Reply to: 2706255

real careful about whether state law isn't applicable.  I get your point, but never say never is actually a practice in legal circles!



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Msg ID: 2706256 Compensatible, under the terns of the negotiated contract!! +0/-0     
Author:In Other Industries Preparing For
10/5/2021 10:06:49 PM

Reply to: 2706250

Work is referred to as "Donning and doffing". The companies refused to pay the time in preparation for work by employees. Tha5 is until they were forced to by lawsuit. You don't want that lawsuit to prevail and then include back pay.



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Msg ID: 2706263 This ain't other industries, this is air carrier regulated by RLA +0/-0     
Author:CBA was negotiated and ratified!
10/5/2021 10:28:03 PM

Reply to: 2706256
The lawsuit was frivolous and the company should have simply called the OPEIU as a witness as the ONLY authorized representative agent for those pilots. The attorney hired to represent the class action was not a duly certified representative. The company should have countersued for attorney fees instead of agreeing to pay attorney fees. No need for a union if we all can simply sue on our own! The union lost leverage and did a disservice to all its members by letting a group now work OUTSIDE the negotiated contract. The RLA is pretty clear that this was an issue within its applicability, which preempts state law.


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Msg ID: 2706267 This ain't other industries, this is air carrier regulated by RLA +0/-0     
Author:Standards In Other Industries
10/5/2021 11:16:51 PM

Reply to: 2706263

Make precedent for all industries.



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