Click here to close
New Message Alert
List Entire Thread
Msg ID: 2697824 Land Immediately VS Land ASAP +0/-0     
Author:Gimme a list!
7/27/2021 5:35:01 PM

I think the distinction between Land Immediately and Land As Soon As Possible is ridiculous.  They should be one and the same.  I know Airbus and MD both have that phrase definition, though, so we have to know it as PIC.

Question: How do you differentiate between the two (i.e., what scenario and what would you do differently)???



Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2698003 Land Immediately VS Land ASAP +10/-0     
Author:Get er down
7/29/2021 9:38:10 AM

Reply to: 2697824

Land Immediately means you are going in the water or trees if they are below you.

Land as soon as possible means you may be able to fly to the open spot beyond the trees.



Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2698056 aren't each described in the first part of the EP section? (NT) +0/-0     
Author:It's flying fundamentals
7/29/2021 7:43:04 PM

Reply to: 2697824


Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2698088 Land Immediately VS Land ASAP +0/-0     
Author:OCONUS IP
7/30/2021 9:57:35 AM

Reply to: 2697824

Land Immediately means you have NO Choice of landing spot, you're landing HERE.

Land As Soon As Possible means you have SOME choice of the landing spot, but I wouldn't advise you push that flexibility.

As was already said, if the engine quits you're landing in the water or trees, i.e., you have NO choice in that.  If you have an engine chip light, you can keep flying to the first safe spot to land, and not put the aircraft down in the water or trees.

So, unlike you comment, there is a definate distinction between the two.

Anyone else remember the two AH-64 guys who got a chip light and chose to land NOW.  Completed a normal shut down and everything before they were taken captive!  THey didn't understand that distinction.  I worked with a guy in the past who had an engine chip light and decided he'd just fly the aircraft back to the airport.  Hell, it was only 10 minutes away.  He lost the engine and rolled the aircraft over on landing.  "What the f, he'd done the same thing plenty of times and the engine had never quit befroe!"  He didn't understand the distinction either! 



Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2698093 You will change your mind (NT) +0/-0     
Author:when on fire.
7/30/2021 11:35:34 AM

Reply to: 2697824


Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2698097 You will change your mind +1/-0     
Author:Flight school day 1
7/30/2021 1:09:09 PM

Reply to: 2698093

immediately = look at the top of your toes and that's where you're going. if you're over mountains, trees, water, etc so be it. It's better to be down there wishing you were up in the air than up in the air wishing you were on the ground. Preservatoon of life over the aircraft is paramount as the aircraft has already failed you. 

LASAP = pick the nearest suitable landing area. IE not a confined area for a tail rotor control malfunction. Etc..

 

Although I've answered sincerely I really hope this is not a serious question.....



Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2698159 Land Immediately VS Land ASAP +0/-0     
Author:Anonymous
7/31/2021 2:54:56 AM

Reply to: 2697824

LASAP=Land at the first place a safe landing can be expected 

Land Immediately=Do it now, a safe landing may not be possible 

 

 



Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2698200 Land Immediately VS Land ASAP +1/-0     
Author:Gimme a list!
7/31/2021 5:47:37 PM

Reply to: 2697824

So the 2 "explanations" I hear the most, and what has been proposed so far in the replies, sound like either 1) both LASAP and LI aren't really much different; as in there is a slight bit more haste with LI - OR -  2) LI is basically "put it in the water/trees; i.e., controlled crash because it will fall apart in the sky anyway" (which I think is ludicrous).

 

MD puts it this way:

LAND IMMEDIATELY - Execute a power-on approach and landing without delay.

LAND AS SOON AS POSSIBLE - Execute a power-on approach and landing to the nearest safe landing area that does not further jeopardize the aircraft or occupants.

AIRBUS puts it this way:

LAND IMMEDIATELY- The urgency of landing is paramount. Primary consideration is to assure survival of the occupants. Landing in water, trees or other unsafe areas should be considered only as a last resort.

LAND AS SOON AS POSSIBLE (LAND ASAP) - Land without delay at the nearest adequate site (i.e. open field) at which a safe approach and landing can be made.

LAND AS SOON AS PRACTICABLE - The landing site and duration of flight are at the discretion of the pilot. Extended flight beyond the nearest approved landing area where appropriate assistance can be expected is not recommended.

 

BOTH say the word "landing" not crash.  The first says "without delay" and the second says "nearest safe landing area" (so the "without delay" infers to land in an unsafe landing area meaning possible aircraft damage; i.e. a crash). 

So what REAL scenarios would constitute a Land Immediately? - i.e. crash the helicopter (the only EP's that fall in this category are aircraft fire and XMSN chip/pressure/temp depending on the airframe manufacturer).

I mean, I got it: get it down out of the air so nothing falls apart on you when up in the sky.  But once you're near the ground (10 ft or less) after entering an autorotative profile to get down there safely... why don't they say milk it slowly to a safe place?

A fire can spread quickly or slowly... so crash the helicopter even though you may have had enough time to get down on the deck and fly low/slow (within safe HV curve points) to your "safe landing area"? 

Same thing with XMSN chip/press/temp... crash instead of fly low and slow (where even a total lockup or disassembly of the system means you're falling from safe height/speed and have same chance of injury as autorotating into trees/water?) when maybe that problem was going to not be a catastrophic mechanical problem for a few more minutes; enough for you to get to a safe landing area.  Just a thought...  

I was raised on Bell products and they only have 2 options: Land ASAP and Land ASA Practical.  I always thought Land Immediately was weird.  You either rush or you don't - Land ASAP or Land ASA Practical.  

 



Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2698280 Land Immediately VS Land ASAP +0/-0     
Author:Professor Richard
8/1/2021 12:16:18 PM

Reply to: 2697824

1.) Land immediately: Aircraft on fire / impending xmiss failure (chip, press. and secondary indications) / extreme vibrations / flight control failure.

2.) Land ASAP: xmiss/eng chip, no secondary indications.

3.) Land when practical: safety not in question 

You really don't see a difference in urgency between #1 & #2?

Land immediately is essentially a controlled crash when catostrophic failure is imminent. Very rare that such urgency is needed, but it can happen.



Return-To-Index