Msg ID:
2696437 |
Air Methods Check Airman Organizing and signing cards next week +3/-7
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Author:Union will be in Denver
7/15/2021 11:04:47 AM
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About time this is happening. Been a rough time being an ACE for AMC the last several years and we NEED the Union!! Vote YES!!! |
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Msg ID:
2696438 |
Suppose their President will be a Check Airman working for AMC? (NT) +0/-1
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Author:Hope so!
7/15/2021 11:05:47 AM
Reply to: 2696437
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Msg ID:
2696452 |
Signing a card doesn’t vote in a union, it’s a petition to have a vote +3/-1
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Author:It’s a con actually
7/15/2021 11:39:47 AM
Reply to: 2696437
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The card can be solicited for a whole year from employees. Once signed, it is held even if the employee moves on or changes his mind. If the union can obtain 50% signed cards, they will attempt to claim they have succeeded in establishing a union without an actual vote and hope the company doesn't contest it. If the company doesn't contest, thenunion will claim itself without an actual vote. If the comp does contest, the matter comes up for a vote BUT the union now has gained a huge strategic advantage because it only needs a majority of those voting to win. Of course, those anxious to establish a union will vote. But, those who are not anxious to start a union and don't participate in the hoopla will be counted as an abstain where their nonparticipation will count against them.
usually, to establish something when there wasn't anything, it requires a majority of the whole. IOWs, it would take a majority of all to vote to establish itself. But, now, having collected cards for a whole year, the union can established itself with just one person voting FOR a union, with the other 99% ignoring the vote by not participating. A HUGE advantage for unions to gain access when they had little chance in reality.
Beware of the used car salesman tactics here! |
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Msg ID:
2696529 |
Signing a card doesn’t vote in a union, it’s a petition to have a vote +0/-0
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Author:Anonymous
7/15/2021 11:00:14 PM
Reply to: 2696452
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Funny, but that is exactly how American elections work. Only the majority of those who care enough to vote counts. Just like an American election. What do you have against American elections? Why do you hate America?? |
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Msg ID:
2696548 |
nope, American elections are ALREADY established. +0/-0
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Author:Matter of fact, most NEW things
7/16/2021 8:58:51 AM
Reply to: 2696529
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require a SUPER MAJORITY or better. But, this is not an American election. This is a UNION trying to muscle in on the cash flow of AMERICANS by using a way less than majority strategy! |
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Msg ID:
2696550 |
For instance: Read how a town becomes incorporated: +0/-0
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Author:Anonymous
7/16/2021 9:11:14 AM
Reply to: 2696548
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https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2005/11/how-do-you-start-your-own-town.html
Though each state has its own rules on “municipal incorporation,” in general you’ll need to get 51 percent of the eligible voters in the area to go along with you.
That is 51% of the whole to vote for it! Not 5% of the whole, equating to 52% of those voting!
Before you can take rights from individuals, the individual needs to agree to it. That's why 50%+1 of all eligible needs to agree to it at the onset! Otherwise, you can end up with 1% of the whole establishing something 99% of the whole really didn't want
This is how the real America works! |
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Msg ID:
2696560 |
No +0/-0
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Author:Anonymous
7/16/2021 9:56:09 AM
Reply to: 2696548
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You make your agenda clear when you simply lie. If only 10 people voted in an American election the candidate with the majority of those 10 who voted would win. This is the way a union election is done also. Those who don't vote don't count. That's the way it is in America, and that's the way it is in a union election. Stop lying. |
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Msg ID:
2696563 |
Bubba, this isn't an American Election! You are being purposfully +0/-0
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Author:misleading and disingenuous!
7/16/2021 9:59:47 AM
Reply to: 2696560
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This is to establish a restrictive covenent where there isn't one. This is to say, you are trying to TAKE AWAY the rights of those enjoying their freedom using a MINORITY of the whole.
Not only un-American, but unethical and dishonest!
Trying to call this an American Election is simply inane! |
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Msg ID:
2696719 |
Majority of Those Who Care Enough to Vote +0/-0
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Author:Decide
7/16/2021 10:57:37 PM
Reply to: 2696563
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sounds pretty fair to me. If it bothers you, guess you were in the generation who got a trophy for participating. Hmmm? |
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Msg ID:
2696827 |
I just took a vote and you are in the minority. Sorry you weren't there (NT) +0/-0
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Author:Anonymous
7/17/2021 5:43:24 PM
Reply to: 2696719
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Msg ID:
2696462 |
Yes! Take lessons from Local 107 (NT) +0/-0
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Author:Vegas parties & gang train with…
7/15/2021 12:52:33 PM
Reply to: 2696437
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Msg ID:
2696464 |
Almost 40 years in the biz. 3 union drives. No company ever got 'organized' +3/-0
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Author:olderendirt
7/15/2021 1:28:00 PM
Reply to: 2696437
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Almost 40 years in the biz. 3 union drives. No company ever got 'organized' that didn't work hard to get it.
That said, organizing is less than half the battle. Keeping the membership active and on top of their elected officials and represenatatives is tougher than getting the union voted. Bureaucracies and internecine politicing will cripple your represntation.
BUT if you keep the guys involved, elect good reps, it's night and day, a sudden improvment at work. The contract spells it out for all involved. Bing, bang budda-boom- here's your papers, you're outta here. Sat at some whining and crying while managers documented the past process and the dead wood was gone- it's a relief to everyone. |
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Msg ID:
2696501 |
Almost 40 years in the biz. 3 union drives. No company ever got 'organized' +2/-1
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Author:Fairy Land
7/15/2021 6:02:54 PM
Reply to: 2696464
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If that is true why does PHI pay better now then when the had a strong union.
If that's true why do no union companies like ERA, LFN, etc pay better than union companies.
Think you might be mistaken |
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Msg ID:
2696544 |
Almost 40 years in the biz. 3 union drives. No company ever got 'organized' +1/-0
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Author:Uh
7/16/2021 7:05:22 AM
Reply to: 2696501
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PHI is still following the pay structure in the Green Book. Era has no choice but to match or pay more. That's why. |
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Msg ID:
2696552 |
The Green Book? Isn't..... +0/-0
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Author:Anonymous
7/16/2021 9:33:29 AM
Reply to: 2696544
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Isn't the Green Book the imposed "contract" by the company after the Union disinigrated in a strike? Surely you aren't trying to claim they are getting paid so well now because of the union in that failure! PHI could have written anything it wanted to in the Green Book, and frankly, can change the Green Book anytime it wants to now.
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Msg ID:
2696565 |
The Green Book? Isn't..... +0/-0
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Author:No
7/16/2021 10:01:46 AM
Reply to: 2696552
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It was not "imposed". It was the company's final offer before the strike. The offer negotiated by the union. For the most part, PHI has abided by it. Yes, I am claiming PHI pays well because they have honored the green book as far as pay. They wouldn't need to change the green book, they could disregard it. But they haven't because the union still has a presence at the company. Strikes are expensive for everybody. PHI is trying to avoid that. |
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Msg ID:
2696566 |
Imposed!! The company imposed it! That is simply a fact! +0/-0
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Author:And,...
7/16/2021 10:11:51 AM
Reply to: 2696565
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The union has "presence" in the sense there are a half-dozen guys running around calling themselves the union who are surviving mostly on Careflite pilot's mandatory dues, but who don't give Careflite pilots the time of day! Why Careflite is part of PHI pilot's union is beyond comprehension (unless you are of a corrupted mind).
if PhI pilots are being treated well, today, 14 years after the union collapsed in a Strike effort, it is ONLY because the company treats the pilots well, not because the union has anything to do with it. There is effectivly no union (except as a zhilaohu) |
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Msg ID:
2696569 |
Imposed!! The company imposed it! That is simply a fact! +1/-0
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Author:Call it whatever makes you feel better
7/16/2021 10:22:06 AM
Reply to: 2696566
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Truth is, it's was a huge increase in pay a benefits. Many pilots saw their pay nearly double. As I have been saying for years, the strike was anything but a failure for PHI pilots in the grand scheme. I consider the strike a battle lost but when it comes to pay, the pilots won the war. Era has had no choice but to match or beat PHI's pay. PHI's union membership has been steadily increasing lately. If you think PHI has abided by the Green Book out of the goodness of their heart, you are more naive than you are stupid. Or maybe the other way around. Whatever. |
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Msg ID:
2696572 |
Imposed!! The company imposed it! That is simply a fact! +0/-0
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Author:lol
7/16/2021 10:25:55 AM
Reply to: 2696569
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PHI: we shall now IMPOSE a contract that we will honor that gives you pilots a huge increase in pay and benefits!
PHI pilots: oh, okay |
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Msg ID:
2696575 |
Union, "No, it's not good enough, we're going on Stike" +0/-0
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Author:Company, 'well, OK"
7/16/2021 11:00:45 AM
Reply to: 2696572
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Imposed! The union went on strike because it rejected the company's offer, and the company simply imposed it when the NMB released them from status Quo. The Green Book is the last offer by the company that the union rejected, but who now claim it to be great adn all because of them. t/hey didn't sign it then... and it was simply IMPOSED.
Imonsed, minus a bunch of things the company scratched out before they imposed it, chiefly: Agency Fees! |
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Msg ID:
2696580 |
Union, "No, it's not good enough, we're going on Stike" +0/-0
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Author:Tie yourself in knots all you want but
7/16/2021 11:22:41 AM
Reply to: 2696575
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after all was said and done, the contract was a huge win for PHI pilots. And it still is today. Uninformed people (or more accurately, liars) always want to distort the truth by focusing only on the strike as proof the union failed. The truth is more complicated. I know it's just a magical coincidence that PHI pilots started being treated and paid better in 2006. PHI pilots and the industry as a whole owe them a debt of gratitude. |
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Msg ID:
2696582 |
Huge win? So, you are saying THE COMPANY'S OFFER +0/-0
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Author:was very generous then!
7/16/2021 11:31:07 AM
Reply to: 2696580
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And, they imposed it. And the union collapsed because if it! And, you are saying it is STILL the company's generous offer that sets the standard.
You have no nose to look at there pal! |
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Msg ID:
2696584 |
Huge win? So, you are saying THE COMPANY'S OFFER +0/-0
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Author:I thank PHI they imposed
7/16/2021 12:04:00 PM
Reply to: 2696582
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that nice contract that the union negotiated but unfortunately rejected. Thanks, union! |
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Msg ID:
2696587 |
yes, thank you union for rejecting offer, causing company to impose their +1/-0
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Author:green book & eliminating dues 4ever!
7/16/2021 12:44:04 PM
Reply to: 2696584
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Now I don't have to fund the union parties for their fat cats, fund the political left machine and pass along its propaganda, and still enjoy all the benefits of a great company
The union was awsome in doing that! |
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Msg ID:
2696593 |
yes, thank you union for rejecting offer, causing company to impose their +0/-0
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Author:I guess you don’t understand
7/16/2021 1:02:30 PM
Reply to: 2696587
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the result is the same since PHI has abided by the last offer. You never had to join the union. Lol |
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Msg ID:
2696602 |
i guess YOU don't understand... They company can change it whenever & they +0/-0
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Author:got rid of the union
7/16/2021 1:42:56 PM
Reply to: 2696593
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The union cannot claim anything as a success here, since they have no success here |
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Msg ID:
2696612 |
i guess YOU don't understand... They company can change it whenever & they +0/-0
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Author:Well, son
7/16/2021 2:29:57 PM
Reply to: 2696602
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You know wages didn't just come up huge in 2006 on their own. The Green Book didnt write itself. Thanks union!! |
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Msg ID:
2696615 |
Yes they did. Supply and demand. Demand high, wages up accordingly +0/-0
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Author:for limited supply of pilots! Even...
7/16/2021 2:45:15 PM
Reply to: 2696612
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the dude they interviewed from the then PHPA admitted it (B.G. straight up). supply and demand. They only thing the union might be credited with is creating a scale. But wages were going up on their own anyways, union or no union! |
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Msg ID:
2696621 |
Yes they did. Supply and demand. Demand high, wages up accordingly +0/-0
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Author:lol
7/16/2021 3:02:22 PM
Reply to: 2696615
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PHI wages almost doubled with the contract that the union negotiated. That's the fact. You are not being honest with yourself. What's odd is that the wages at Air Log went up because of "supply and demand" at the EXACT SAME TIME they negotiated their contract, too. Weird! haaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!! |
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Msg ID:
2696625 |
Yes they did. Supply and demand. Demand high, wages up accordingly +0/-0
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Author:Supply and demand is a great
7/16/2021 3:06:41 PM
Reply to: 2696615
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bargaining chip for a union! |
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Msg ID:
2696633 |
Yes they did. Supply and demand. Demand high, wages up accordingly +0/-0
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Author:PHI was pretty full on pilots at
7/16/2021 3:28:19 PM
Reply to: 2696625
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the time. They must have been afraid everybody was going to quit and go work teaching in Robbies. haaaaaaaahaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaa!
That's funny. |
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Msg ID:
2696616 |
The wages of helicopter Union Organizers clearly went up (NT) +1/-0
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Author:into the 6 figures, thanks to the union
7/16/2021 2:47:17 PM
Reply to: 2696612
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Msg ID:
2696622 |
The wages of helicopter Union Organizers clearly went up +0/-0
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Author:good. they
7/16/2021 3:02:50 PM
Reply to: 2696616
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deserve it! |
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Msg ID:
2696627 |
Yes, they negotiate for themselves first, always! (NT) +0/-0
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Author:Anonymous
7/16/2021 3:11:55 PM
Reply to: 2696622
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Msg ID:
2696634 |
Yes, they negotiate for themselves first, always! +0/-0
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Author:okay
7/16/2021 3:30:36 PM
Reply to: 2696627
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somebody has to go first lol. Hey, they get me a nice contract, it's: after you, sir! |
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Msg ID:
2696637 |
so, you admit unions are not about putting their member's first (NT) +0/-0
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Author:but that they step in for themselves?
7/16/2021 3:33:08 PM
Reply to: 2696634
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Msg ID:
2696638 |
so, you admit unions are not about putting their member's first +0/-0
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Author:yes, exactly
7/16/2021 3:34:16 PM
Reply to: 2696637
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that's exactly what I admit. Exactly. lol |
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Msg ID:
2696648 |
Pretty much what most people know to be true anyways (NT) +0/-0
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Author:union's are leeches first & foremost
7/16/2021 4:07:34 PM
Reply to: 2696638
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Msg ID:
2696658 |
Pretty much what most people know to be true anyways +0/-0
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Author:see above ^^^^^^
7/16/2021 4:49:45 PM
Reply to: 2696648
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what it looks like when you lost an argument but you never had an argument to begin with lol |
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Msg ID:
2696662 |
Not paying dues anymore! I'd say I won the argument +0/-0
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Author:Anonymous
7/16/2021 5:28:22 PM
Reply to: 2696658
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X |
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Msg ID:
2696668 |
Not paying dues anymore! I'd say I won the argument +0/-0
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Author:you get a free ride
7/16/2021 5:36:51 PM
Reply to: 2696662
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congrats. But if that's all you can come up with, the argument you lost. lol |
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Msg ID:
2696678 |
A "free ride" from what exactly? The company imposed contract with me? +0/-0
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Author:Union didn't sign it. Union went bust
7/16/2021 6:33:47 PM
Reply to: 2696668
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Free ride, LOL! |
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Msg ID:
2696687 |
A "free ride" from what exactly? The company imposed contract with me? +0/-0
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Author:Yup, that company imposed
7/16/2021 7:21:26 PM
Reply to: 2696678
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nice contract the union got for you. You really should thank them but speaking of leeches... |
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Msg ID:
2696702 |
That's funny you trying to call dues paying members "leeches" +1/-0
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Author:I payed dues, by force, & the union...
7/16/2021 8:50:59 PM
Reply to: 2696687
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ignored its dues paying members, to forge on anyway and ignore the offer THE COMPANY gave us. The UNION damn near lost it all for us in their arrogance and disparagements of company executives. The company was honorable despite the union, gave us great things, and freed us from the big headed union thugs forever!
The only thanks due is to the company! |
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Msg ID:
2696739 |
That's funny you trying to call dues paying members "leeches" +0/-0
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Author:The simple reality is
7/17/2021 8:09:19 AM
Reply to: 2696702
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the only reason that contract exists today is because of the union. PHI went from paying poorly before the union to paying well after. It's not too hard to figure out unless you just don't want to. |
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Msg ID:
2696786 |
Salarie increases followed cost of living increases +0/-0
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Author:Natural evolution. Union or not!
7/17/2021 2:00:05 PM
Reply to: 2696739
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Companies had to increase their offerings to keep people, not because the union "pressured" them to do it. My plumber neighbor's wages went up as much if not for over the same period, he is not a union (nobody around these parts are). Natural evolution! |
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Msg ID:
2696792 |
Salarie increases followed cost of living increases +0/-0
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Author:Sorry, no.
7/17/2021 2:31:13 PM
Reply to: 2696786
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Oh, we're back to "supply and demand". lol PHI's pay almost doubled overnight with the union contract. That's a good story about your plumber neighbor, though. lol And I wonder where all those hundreds of pilots were going to go? lol retard |
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Msg ID:
2696795 |
Pay given by a company who could have imposed anything it wanted to +0/-0
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Author:Now it is a proper union existance!
7/17/2021 3:08:53 PM
Reply to: 2696792
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if you want members, earn them! You've got a long way to go, though! And, holding Careflite pilots hostage for their forced dues is the only reasin you have any real cash to work with here. |
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Msg ID:
2696860 |
Pay given by a company who could have imposed anything it wanted to +0/-0
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Author:No, not anything they wanted to
7/18/2021 7:24:21 AM
Reply to: 2696795
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LOL |
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Msg ID:
2696929 |
Yup, pretty much anything it wants! +0/-0
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Author:Anonymous
7/19/2021 7:31:16 AM
Reply to: 2696860
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If no agreement is reached at the end of the cooling off period, and absent Congressional action, the parties may engage in self-help; including, strikes "CHAOS™", lockouts, and company imposed unilateral changes in terms and conditions of employment.
https://www.contract2021.org/understanding-the-railway-labor-act/ >
It can make any changes it wishes, but will not want to destroy its chance of surviving the long term health of the company. whatever it imposes, it is the new CBA (ie, the green book), that is now binding on itself. So, they will generally add changes in the language that make it easier to implememt future unilateral changes if needed. PHI did that.
In the end, it amounts to anything!
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Msg ID:
2696940 |
Yup, pretty much anything it wants! +0/-0
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Author:You like to talk about things
7/19/2021 10:23:39 AM
Reply to: 2696929
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that didn't happen which doesn't help whatever it is you're trying to say. |
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Msg ID:
2696945 |
it did happen, phi imposed a contract they imposed (NT) +0/-0
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Author:union or no union!
7/19/2021 11:31:23 AM
Reply to: 2696940
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Msg ID:
2696962 |
it did happen, phi imposed a contract they imposed +0/-0
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Author:and where
7/19/2021 2:26:42 PM
Reply to: 2696945
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did that contract come from. Think about it and get back to me. |
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Msg ID:
2696965 |
from the president/CEO, HR and the DOO (NT) +0/-0
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Author:Anonymous
7/19/2021 2:33:28 PM
Reply to: 2696962
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Msg ID:
2696967 |
from the president/CEO, HR and the DOO +0/-0
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Author:uh, incorrect
7/19/2021 3:02:22 PM
Reply to: 2696965
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the union. That's where the contract came from. No union, no contract. It's quite simple. It was a mistake to go on strike but PHI honored their final offer. They really didn't have much choice or they wouldn't have done it. PHI pilots were grossly underpaid and they saw the writing on the wall with Air Log. |
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Msg ID:
2696976 |
So, you just validated the fact PHI chose that contract after the union +0/-0
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Author:imploded. They had a choice, but...
7/19/2021 4:59:56 PM
Reply to: 2696967
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... like you said, they offered somethign they believed would be marketable. The UNION had little power to do anything, it was all PHI's choice. The union deserves no credit since they weren't a factor anymore. The decision was completely up to the company, who rewrote their final offer before imposing the green book. There were a lot of strike marks in the final offer going the green book. And, currently, the company has complete control of it still. If they wish to change it, the can simply do so! |
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Msg ID:
2696978 |
So, you just validated the fact PHI chose that contract after the union +1/-0
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Author:uh
7/19/2021 5:19:54 PM
Reply to: 2696976
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the union deserves all the credit as unionization forced the company to bargaining table. We all know what the situation is now. PHI's pilot pay doubled because of the contract. That would have never happened if not for the union. What the company did or didn't do with their final offer isn't relevant. I'm pretty sure you're making that up as retroactive back pay was the hang up. What is relevant is the huge increase in pay and benefits the union regotiated and the company agreed to. End of story. To deny the union's role is denying reality. And Biden is your president, too. lol |
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Msg ID:
2696979 |
So, you just validated the fact PHI chose that contract after the union +0/-0
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Author:More simply
7/19/2021 5:31:19 PM
Reply to: 2696978
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just because the company broke the union doesn't mean it nullifies all the gains the unionization and negotiations brought about. For some reason you seem to think this, which, of course, is to deny reality. |
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Msg ID:
2696995 |
The company was under no obligation to the union at that point +0/-0
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Author:So all the gains were simply company
7/19/2021 10:16:48 PM
Reply to: 2696979
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given, not union earned. And the notion the union went on strike for back pay is laughable. That was a ruse by the union to disguise their Real reason for not letting the members ratify the last offer (which you've conceded was a great offer then and still), which was because the company offer did not contain any Agency Fee clause. The union went on strike for that reason, not back pay. They hid that from the members though! |
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Msg ID:
2696996 |
The company was under no obligation to the union at that point +1/-0
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Author:but the pilots got the pay
7/19/2021 10:36:17 PM
Reply to: 2696995
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thanks to the union. next |
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Msg ID:
2697005 |
The pay the company decided it wanted to pay (NT) +0/-0
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Author:not any pay owed because of the union
7/20/2021 7:36:24 AM
Reply to: 2696996
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Msg ID:
2697007 |
The pay the company decided it wanted to pay +0/-0
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Author:You got the word decided
7/20/2021 7:52:22 AM
Reply to: 2697005
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doing a lot of work for you, buckwheat lol |
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Msg ID:
2697671 |
Almost 40 years in the biz. 3 union drives. No company ever got 'organized' +0/-0
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Author:Nope
7/25/2021 3:31:51 PM
Reply to: 2696501
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they just have to stay ahead of other unionized outfits. Pretty simple really. What
provides it, obviously, is the existence of unions in the industry. |
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Msg ID:
2696549 |
Air Methods Check Airman Organizing and signing cards next week +0/-0
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Author:FSI
7/16/2021 9:01:54 AM
Reply to: 2696437
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That would be cutting off your nose to spite your face. AMC could just contract training to FSI. I suppose that would be good for FSI. Hell maybe they're behind the push. Get your applications in early. |
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Msg ID:
2696553 |
Union pushers can't see their noses to look past it! (NT) +0/-0
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Author:Anonymous
7/16/2021 9:35:13 AM
Reply to: 2696549
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Msg ID:
2696559 |
Union pushers can't see their noses to look past it! +0/-0
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Author:FSI
7/16/2021 9:52:05 AM
Reply to: 2696553
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They'll be standing around in ties with the flight safety guys. Opening doors and making coffee for the Air Methods pilots |
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Msg ID:
2696576 |
Union pushers can't see their noses to look past it! +0/-0
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Author:You do realize
7/16/2021 11:01:13 AM
Reply to: 2696559
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FSI instructors make a helluva lot more than the AMC chumps. |
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Msg ID:
2696649 |
And, their are non-union too! (NT) +0/-0
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Author:Anonymous
7/16/2021 4:09:33 PM
Reply to: 2696576
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Msg ID:
2696594 |
Air Methods Check Airman Organizing and signing cards next week +0/-0
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Author:Examcca
7/16/2021 1:04:15 PM
Reply to: 2696549
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good truck to contract all the field based training to FSI. They have no way to do it. |
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Msg ID:
2696605 |
Air Methods Check Airman Organizing and signing cards next week +0/-0
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Author:FSI
7/16/2021 1:55:24 PM
Reply to: 2696594
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Another idiot who has no perspective of scope |
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