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Msg ID: 2696378 HAA is the worst job on earth (NT) +14/-2     
Author:Discourage anybody from trying
7/15/2021 2:12:05 AM


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Msg ID: 2696384 HAA is the worst job on earth  +4/-7     
Author:Really?
7/15/2021 7:49:44 AM

Reply to: 2696378

It's because you make it that way.



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Msg ID: 2696390 HAA is the worst job on earth  +10/-2     
Author:Btdt
7/15/2021 8:23:22 AM

Reply to: 2696384

A good community base is awesome. A hybrid or hospital contract is the absolute worst! 
if you get lucky and work for a small mom and pop operation it's even better.

working for the larger companies is like wiping your butt with 100 grit sandpaper.



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Msg ID: 2696393 HAA is the worst job on earth  +2/-3     
Author:yeah yeah yeah
7/15/2021 8:50:24 AM

Reply to: 2696390

Then quit. 



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Msg ID: 2696417 HAA is the worst job on earth  +3/-2     
Author:BINGO!
7/15/2021 10:15:19 AM

Reply to: 2696390

22 years of HEMS/HAA and you nailed it!



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Msg ID: 2696397 The Way It Is +25/-4     
Author: CornFed
7/15/2021 9:12:54 AM

Reply to: 2696378

It depends on how you look at life. 

If by good job you mean a gig where you have to put out very little effort and have quite a bit of time off and a predictable schedule, in return for adequate (not great...with some exceptions...) money, the HAA is a pretty good deal.

On the other hand if you are an individual who is motivated by aviation and by having pride in your work, accomplishing something with the aircraft, that sort of thing...then HAA is not so good.

There are too many rules because for years this has been a de facto entry level job and there have been too many idiots flying HAA, resulting in a number of crashes. The number has in fact been not especially high, but HAA is high-vis, high-profile and with the Angel-o'-Mercy image, so when there's a crash and medical people and patients die, there is foo-fer-aw over it all out of proportion to the event. What has resuled is regulatory micromanagement and an insane level of hand-holding rules that, in practice, eliminate the need for any real talent and decision-making in the cockpit and reduce or eliminate any aviation job satisfaction. You have to understand what I'm talking about, if you don't get it, I can't explain it better. 

A lot of pilots are introverts, those who are won't do so well in the Hospital settings, where being a regular Joe and kind of chatty and outgoing and personable and political are necessary skills. If you can find a good independent (Stand-Alone) Base where people have lives outside of their work and are content to live and let live in exchange for just coming in, doing your job and then departing with a minimum of drama, it's OK. Just OK. 

I always get a lot of static when I say this next part, but those who deny it just don't get it and are the ones who tend to have problems in HAA: HAA is very very customer-oriented. And for the Pilots, the Med Crews are the first-level customers. What I mean is, HAA is not centered around flying, that is, it's not a helicopter industry thing that happens to carry sick people, it's a medical transport thing that happens to use helicopters instead of ground ambulances. It's kinda all about the Medical end of things, that's the service the business provides. There are people who deny this, as I say, and just don't get it. They'll be along to make negative comments shortly, so be it. If a Med Crew doesn't want to make some flight for some reason, they'll say so and that's it, you ain't going, and if you the Pilot attempt to make this an issue, you won't last long. I never could understand the problem some Pilots have with this, but then some Pilots really just aren't cut out for this end of the industry, in fact many Pilots aren't really cut out to be Pilots and that is why our accident rate is so high. 

I wish there was some kind of venue where people who are thinking of being HAA pilots could go for a webinar and just have lengthy and open-ended Q & A sessions and discussions with those who have a lot of time and experience in this end of the industry. I think it would head off a lot of problems. Time and again I have seen people come into a Base without a clear understanding of the job and they always cause a lot of problems and grief and drama before either leaving of their own free will or getting the boot.

Last point, I really would rather be doing something else than HAA. A lot of people in it feel that way but won't say anything for obvious reasons. The fact is that if you are a Pilot you want a flying job and HAA has evolved in this Country to be the largest employment segment for Helicopter Pilots. You have to know somebody to get a Utility or Ag job, or a Corporate Gig, and O & G (which used to be the biggest thing) is on the downslide and will continue that way. So if you want a career flying job that pays a living wage and that doesn't require nepotism, cronyism, or rascalism to get, well, you are pretty much stuck with HAA, if you choose to stay a helicopter Pilot or don't have the option of getting into the Fixed-Wing world.

These are some honest, real-world points of information. Those who are looking at HAA jobs should consider them. Not many will. And so it goes...



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Msg ID: 2696404 The Way It Is +1/-3     
Author:I read as far as EMS being an
7/15/2021 9:31:28 AM

Reply to: 2696397

"entry level job" and saved myself the trouble of reading further.



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Msg ID: 2696408 The Way It Is +2/-1     
Author:De Jure
7/15/2021 9:41:14 AM

Reply to: 2696404

De facto entry level is what he said. My interpretation was that if a CFI comes into HAA, it will be their first real world job. If a military guy comes in, unless they were MAST or some kind of medevac, most of their flying doesn't prepare them for the culture shock of HAA. Tour guys might have an easier time. Spray and utility guys might transition better.



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Msg ID: 2696411 The Way It Is +0/-1     
Author:There are no CFI's going
7/15/2021 9:44:30 AM

Reply to: 2696408

straight to EMS. Zero. As in NONE.



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Msg ID: 2696410 The Way It Is +17/-0     
Author:Entry level
7/15/2021 9:44:22 AM

Reply to: 2696404

It has become a near entry level job. How many students/instructors got into this to fly EMS or soon set that goal because of the stable schedule and the constant openings? A lot. It's become a pipeline. Instruct to tour minimums. Fly tours to EMS minimums. get EMS job at bad location to get hired. Transfer to better location closer to home ASAP. I bet there is one pilot at almost every base with this story. It is what it is. The days of EMS pilots all being seasoned veterans of the industry are gone. 



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Msg ID: 2696412 The Way It Is +1/-2     
Author:EMS is not that complicated.
7/15/2021 9:48:25 AM

Reply to: 2696410

Point A to B to C and back to A. There really aren't any helicopter jobs that are that difficult. 



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Msg ID: 2696418 The Way It Is +8/-1     
Author:Reality check
7/15/2021 10:16:50 AM

Reply to: 2696404

You can get an HAA job now with 1,200 hours, 1.5 years of flying experience, and background of doing nothing but tours and CFI. In other words, your only experience can be fair weather flying in circles with no tough decisions ever being made, and companies like AMC will happily hire you for $68k.

That's pretty much entry level.

Should it be that way? No. HAA should be hiring pilots with a lot of experience under their belt. But those pilots with substantial skill/knowledge aren't going to work for $70k a year. Or even $80 or $90k a year. Because there are companies in O&G, corporate, and utility who value experience and are paying co-pilots what an HAA PIC makes, and captains are making $130-180 a year.

The HAA business model revolves around cheap labor, and finding unqualified pilots to fly for peanuts, who will cover a ton of work-over to make up the pay gap. Which, unfortunately, has turned it into an entry level job.



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Msg ID: 2696432 The Way It Is +0/-0     
Author:Uh, no.
7/15/2021 10:50:10 AM

Reply to: 2696418

Not even AEL would take someone with one and a half years experince. As a matter of fact, there is really no such thing. After training and instruction and getting turbine time to meet anybody's minimums, it will be 3 three years, minimum. AEL may look at you at that point. MAYBE. Who the hell cares what a GOM SIC makes? A GOM captain gets 150 because that's what the HAVE to pay. That is the very top of the scale. 180 means OT. I'll take less and stay away from that mess.



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Msg ID: 2696446 The Way It Is +0/-0     
Author:Truth hurts?
7/15/2021 11:20:18 AM

Reply to: 2696432

Struck a nerve, it seems. 

3 years experience to get hired as an HAA pilot. 1,500 hours. Setting the bar high...

GOM can be a cushy job, or absolutely miserable depending on who you work for and what you fly. Chevron vs. West wind for example. International S92 pilot vs flying a ragged out 206.

Tough descisions on the ground... as a tour pilot? Like how much sunscreen to put on? Why do HAA pilots keep lawn darting perfectly good helicopters? 

It is what it is man. CFI - Tours - HAA. The jobs are a dime a dozen and the entry requirements are low. And the pay reflects that. Anyone flying heavies or utility or corporate can get an HAA job no problem... not so much the other way around.



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Msg ID: 2696456 The Way It Is +0/-0     
Author:I noticed
7/15/2021 12:20:12 PM

Reply to: 2696446

you didn't disagree with anything I said but added some new nonsense. lol



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Msg ID: 2696465 The Way It Is +0/-0     
Author:my name is anon
7/15/2021 1:41:37 PM

Reply to: 2696446

A 737 pilot can get a job flying a 172 but a 172 pilot cannot get a job as a 737 pilot. Let that sink in! This is something I consider wisdom and you should be in awe of me and my amazing insight.



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Msg ID: 2696519 The Way It Is +0/-0     
Author:I, Pilot
7/15/2021 8:58:02 PM

Reply to: 2696446

Why do HAA pilots keep lawn darting perfectly good helicopters? 

 

Hiring pilots without much experience, too many that never learned good decision making, and you're going to get more "lawn darts".

You get what you pay for.

 



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Msg ID: 2696520 The Way It Is +0/-0     
Author:yeah but
7/15/2021 9:18:10 PM

Reply to: 2696519

most accident pilots are high time



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Msg ID: 2696433 The Way It Is +0/-0     
Author:And another thing.
7/15/2021 10:53:24 AM

Reply to: 2696418

If you're not making the "tough decisions" on the ground, you're doing it wrong. Please give me an example of a tough decision you have had to make in the air besides turn around or not turn around? I'll wait.



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Msg ID: 2696436 The Way It Is +1/-1     
Author:What 's really amusing is
7/15/2021 11:04:37 AM

Reply to: 2696418

there is somebody out there that thinks the GOM pays more because "they value experience". Maybe it's because the guy has been there 10 years minimum, started in a 206, 407 or Astar and is now flying a large twin IFR and the job sucks? Do you really think this happened over night? Goddamn, boy...



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Msg ID: 2696451 The Way It Is +8/-0     
Author:Economics 101
7/15/2021 11:39:20 AM

Reply to: 2696436

A pilot who spent 10 years in the GOM and gets qualified as an S92 or AW139 captain has a valuable skill set; it costs a fortune to get a pilot properly trained, type rated, and up to insurance requirements for premium customers in heavy aircraft. From a liability standpoint, operating a $20mil aircraft with 18 lives in the back warrants having an experienced captain... which means paying a competitive salary.

If that pilot decides they no longer like their employer, they can take their skill set elsewhere and make as much or even more flying for the competition.

An HAA pilot who gives a company 10 years is stuck there. No other HAA company is going to offer year 10 pay, when they can hire a young CFI / tour pilot to do that job for $70k.

That's the difference of 'paying for experience'.

Flying heavies offshore, utility, dual rated corporate, etc all require something extra. Having one of those skill sets makes you more valuable. On the HAA side there is nothing to make you more unique/valuable, other than SPIFR. Which pays a measly $5k / year more...



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Msg ID: 2696454 The Way It Is +0/-1     
Author:Holy...
7/15/2021 12:04:19 PM

Reply to: 2696451

Thank you, that is one of the biggest problems we have.

If companies would pay for experience, we could have a HAA company like SouthWest.

One that pays great, cares about its employee, and fly's great equipment.

Instead we get bad companies all around paying terrible wages, and working with less than professional pilots.

Funny how you never see an ad for SouthWest pilots....



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Msg ID: 2696530 The Way It Is +0/-0     
Author:Meta
7/15/2021 11:02:03 PM

Reply to: 2696451

Well said + you don't have to taxi whiney backstabbing bitchlet trailer trash med crews either.  



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Msg ID: 2696473 The Way It Is +0/-0     
Author:this was a stupid statement
7/15/2021 2:11:39 PM

Reply to: 2696397

 "Time and again I have seen people come into a Base without a clear understanding of the job and they always cause a lot of problems and grief and drama before either leaving of their own free will or getting the boot."

 

I have never seen this. What possible could be unclear about this job? And why did you capitalize "base"?



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Msg ID: 2696463 "HAA is the worst job on earth" Well, no- after 16 years on the job. +3/-0     
Author:olderendirt
7/15/2021 1:20:38 PM

Reply to: 2696378

Boring? Oh yeah. You don't fly a lot. Last I looked, 150 hours a year was about average.

The typical transport is, or was at my base 20 minutes to the patient, so minutes to receiving and 20 minutes home. A week on and a week off, that's almost 1 hour flight a day. Come to HEMS with 1500 hours and you could easily fly 20 more years and not bust 5000, a pretty middling amount of experience spread over decades.

If you're an old or experienced pilot and there's a GOOD base near you, consider it. A 'good' base is run by a good company, with good management, good (and maintained) equipment, good check airman who fly the line, good mechanic and especially a good medical manager who knows what's what on that side. That cuts down on the melodrama remarkably.



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Msg ID: 2696532 "HAA is the worst job on earth" Well, no- after 16 years on the job. +1/-0     
Author:Meta
7/15/2021 11:12:24 PM

Reply to: 2696463

You apparently never had to work in a hostile hospital environment. Those people are the absolute worst of any other human being on the planet.  The way they treat their aviation contractors is absolutely childish and despicable!   



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Msg ID: 2696571 "HAA is the worst job on earth" Well, no- after 16 years on the job. +1/-0     
Author:olderendirt
7/16/2021 10:23:43 AM

Reply to: 2696532

You're right- no hospital bases



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Msg ID: 2697083 HAA is the worst job on earth  +1/-0     
Author:Except
7/20/2021 4:07:07 PM

Reply to: 2696378

As a retirement gig.  By that time nothing phases anyone in that profile.



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