It never seems to fail, that the hard working pilots that keep bases open, pull extra shifts, ferry aircraft pave the way so all you slow, lazy, don't care pilot get extra pay.

Nothing is like a kick in the B%^&s like now, getting the extra pay when a lot of pilots have been picking up work over over the last year plus.

What all these companies should have done, was reference employees schedules and see who had been doing the bulk of the work over, and cut those pilots a 5K-10K check.

Then next time a shift comes open you lazy, good for nothing pilots that don't help out will get off your rears and cover some shifts.

Oh wait....the Union says I don't have to that...

Stop taking up everyone elses slack. After three years with my present employer I finally just said, "forget it". I go home at the end of my time and don't look back. It is just a job. Make THEM incentivize anything above and beyond. Show me the $$$.

It's a job, not a mission.

Enjoy your time off doing things that truly matter: being with loved ones/friends, participating in activities that make you happy, seeing the world outside of your base, etc. Life is short and employers aren't that important.

Military is quite a different situation entirely.... they were my family.

This is just a job: a job you can find anywhere, a career you can completely pivot to something else seeing as you had the ability to become a pilot to begin with. Don't take it so seriously.... nobody will remember you other than your family/friends. Your employer will forget you.

I realized I missed one thing.... perhaps YOUR personal thing is to work overtime and feel like you can say you are one of the only pilots 'holding the operation together' because that's just who you are. Maybe family and time off aren't your personal primary concerns. And if that's so... cool. You are free to be you. But don't assume everyone values overtime the same way. Most don't. And they aren't wrong either.

Military is quite a different situation entirely.... they were my family.

This is just a job: a job you can find anywhere, a career you can completely pivot to something else seeing as you had the ability to become a pilot to begin with. Don't take it so seriously.... nobody will remember you other than your family/friends. Your employer will forget you.

What this guy said is also what's wrong with this industry.   He says the military is his familty.   I was unable to do the military, although I would have liked to, but for those of us who have come up flying in the civilian world view this as their career, not just a job.   It's incredilbly one-sided to think that the military is the only way of life.   I view this as my career, and the people I work with as my secondary family, as I participate in many activities with them outside of work.  I do take my job seriously, and I will go the extra mile to do an extra shift because I don't have the luxury of having a military pension on top of my salary.   Go find a job somewhere else, because you are not an asset to this company or anyone else who works here.  You're one of the guys that expects everyone to cover your vacation and sick time but won't get off your butt to pull an extra shift to help the guy who covers your shifts when you're away.  

"What this guy said is also what's wrong with this industry.   He says the military is his familty.   I was unable to do the military, although I would have liked to, but for those of us who have come up flying in the civilian world view this as their career, not just a job.   It's incredilbly one-sided to think that the military is the only way of life.   I view this as my career, and the people I work with as my secondary family, as I participate in many activities with them outside of work.  I do take my job seriously, and I will go the extra mile to do an extra shift because I don't have the luxury of having a military pension on top of my salary.   Go find a job somewhere else, because you are not an asset to this company or anyone else who works here.  You're one of the guys that expects everyone to cover your vacation and sick time but won't get off your butt to pull an extra shift to help the guy who covers your shifts when you're away."

1) Regarding the military as family comment of mine... that was in response to the statement "man I hope you were not in the military, because I would not want that attitude coming to try and help me." Working in the military is quite different than the civilian world. Medevac is a whole different ballgame in theater for I would think obvious reasons. This thread though is about overtime in civilian jobs... 

2) Career/job doesn't matter. You can always pivot. If your actual life priority is work over things like family time and whatnot that have been mentioned here then.... cool. That's what works for you. Doesn't work for everyone.

3) Don't make a habit of making assumptions about others. I don't have a military retirement, disability payments, or anything else from my service. I work for money to pay bills. I also know money isn't everything, employers don't actually care about you, and you can make your life happy with very little while others are scrambling for and stressing over making that big $$$. You do you. Realize others don't have to.

How about you live within your means and then you won't have to spend all that time away from your family. That's what I do. An 84 hour workweek is plenty.

"You're one of the guys that expects everyone to cover your vacation and sick time but won't get off your butt to pull an extra shift to help the guy who covers your shifts when you're away."  

You do realize that vacation and sick time is part of my compensation package, right?

There's no more reason for me to feel guilty about taking it than for accepting the paycheck. It's mine. I earned it. That's the deal. Not my business how the company chooses to cover it. Not yours, either. Full stop.

If you think it's my obligation to cover your vacation because someone covered mine....does that work with pay, as well?

You work ethic guys all pitch in money so everyone can get paid every month? That's be kinda silly, huh? It's the company's responsibility to cover payroll as well as vacation/sick time. Not yours.

How they decide to cover it is a business decision the company makes. They can cover with full-time float pilots hired for the purpose, or take advantage of money-hungry workaholics to avoid the overhead of hiring more full time pilots. Yep, studs like you enable that.

It is not he responsibility of any pilot to worry about who covers their shift when they take time off, that is on the company and the base lead who gets extra $$$ to make sure the schedule is covered.

Now as for trades, if you are always covering for person to benefit them but tehy are unwilling to trade to benefit you, the stop trading with them, easy enough.

Many of the posters here have already spelled it out, most companies do not give a Rats A%$ about you or your family, you are a number and can be replaced, simple as that.

But while you are on your high horse and talking about professionalism, did you do initial hire CTS on your own dime, did you do anything on behalf of the company on your dime, if so, YOU are part of the problem.

I have turned down many companies asking me to do those things only to have them come back and change their mind and offer $$$, which I declined.

One chance to make a first impression.

As for utility, a lot more went into to 12/12 or other equal schedules than the professionalism of the pilots. He was also trying to find relief pilots, travel and training costs for thr relief pilots and other issues.

Yes there were a few who said no more and were willing to take a little less money for more time off, hence the 12/12, so don't foll yourself, if it doesn't make sense for the company bottom line they are not doing it and many companies cannot see the Forrestt through the trees.

So enjoy your high horse, hopefully you will come to know reality sooner than later.

There used to be a guy on the forum who frequently posted under the user name 56k and 5 Vacay.

If you take vacation, and someone covers your empty shifts, then you have to cover their vacation, you effectively are cheated of your days off. Yeah, you can get overtime covering your buddy's open shifts, but some people prefer the days off. That's what they were promised, that's what they should get, if that's what they want.

People died so we don't have to do that sh*t.

What? are you talking about?

This is not Russia or Cube, people are not putting a gun to your head and making you work.

Keep on keepin on there little buddy! I'm sure you are gods gift to your base, program, region, whatever. Many of us have lives and families, who appreciate us being around every once in a while. If someone at my base or another base in the program is in dire need of coverage, I'll help em out. But by no means am I out looking for OT. I enjoy getting to drop my kids off and pick them up from school almost every day, and all the other family stuff I would miss out on while chasing the dollar. My wife and I are not rich but we do make a good living. At the end of the day the only ones that are gonna remember how much you worked are the ones that will resent you for it.

Most of you miss the mark of the OP's idea it's no wonder we have these problems.

It has nothing to with wanting to work all the extra shifts.  It has to do with doing the right thing and getting paid for it.  The OP states that only now that the reliable pilots and more hard working group are tied and burnt out because so many of you don't help a little.  The companies now are stepping up to pay, but only after burning out the good pilots.

It has nothing to do with wanting to do all the work over, it has to do with protecting your job, your llife, your families life.

When shifts go unfilled and customers, areas covered, don't have an aircraft to cover the calls coming out of those areas they can just move on to another company.  Which means they can close your base or you have to move to a different company.

Example- AMC has a contract but a bunch of you, its not my problems work there.  The base has a poor conversion rate because of OOS due to you pilots not showing up for work when there is an opening, vacation, sick, or Vacant position.  The customer decides to move on to another company.

One-They don't have to bring you over because your part of the problem

Two- Lets say Metro takes over the contract- You loose tons of Vac and Sick. Med Trans takes you over and you loose pay and benefits. These are truths because they do not offer the same coverage as AMC or choices.

Three- After all you pontificating and enjoying the good life off of other pilots backs, the bill comes due and now your out of the base you so dearly did not support.

Everyone in the company and your base know who you are, the ones that can't be counted on, the ones who shy away from hard task.

The sad thing, you were that way in the military, you were that way in civilian flight school.  You were the guy wondering why is this GUY getting a training class over me(military), or why is this guy getting long line training over me(civilian).  Because you suck and will always suck, and your kids will grow up seeing that work ethic, great job showing of to make the world a better place by not showing up.

I hope when the time comes in a real emergency, you might actually show up.

You completley missed the mark on all levels. Every base in my program is doing 50+ flights a month. And not just 15 min milk runs. many of our flights are 3-5 hr turn arounds. My base/program isnt going anywhere, so forgive me for not giving a s*** about your base or any other open shifts while on my time off. Let me know when you get to a base that actually has some flight volume. I signed up for a 7/7 because the schedule is aeesome, if I pick up a few days here and there great but I'm not some workover wh*re trying to "save the company"

A company's chronic staffing problems are not my problem and you shouldn't make it yours, either. The company hired me to work a 7/7 and I fulfill my end of our agreement. You create your own problems by resenting pilots that do what is asked and expected. You also keep pay down because the company has no reason to do what they need to do fill the slots. The pilots that feel they need to work OT to cover shifts are not hard workers, they're chumps. You're your own worst enemy, bro.

It has nothing to with wanting to work all the extra shifts.  It has to do with doing the right thing and getting paid for it... It has nothing to do with wanting to do all the work over, it has to do with protecting your job, your llife, your families life.

The "right thing" is covering overtime shifts? That's a pilot's choice at most operators. It is protecting your job only if it is required of you, and it has absolutely ZERO to do with protecting your own life or family's live(s). In fact, not flying lowers your risk of death if you want to really break it down.

Example- AMC has a contract but a bunch of you, its not my problems work there.  The base has a poor conversion rate because of OOS due to you pilots not showing up for work when there is an opening, vacation, sick, or Vacant position.  The customer decides to move on to another company.

Operator should have that issue figured out through a balance of overtime incentives and/or float pilots. Time off is part of your compensation, thus covering those shifts is something the operator also has to prepare for. It's like that in any business that uses human beings. Maybe they have an overtime junkie already that handles it so they don't worry about doing anything else to help... things that would even help said overtime junkie.

Everyone in the company and your base know who you are, the ones that can't be counted on, the ones who shy away from hard task.

Please. Making assumptions again. These pilots are counted on to show up to their shifts and perform their job functions safely, legally, and efficiently. Hell I'm a SPIFR pilot and have to do more than the VFR pilots to maintain that skill, approval, and execute flights when the weather supports it, but 'I can't be counted on' per you apparently.

The sad thing, you were that way in the military, you were that way in civilian flight school.  You were the guy wondering why is this GUY getting a training class over me(military), or why is this guy getting long line training over me(civilian).  Because you suck and will always suck, and your kids will grow up seeing that work ethic, great job showing of to make the world a better place by not showing up.

There it is again. Somehow equating the military (you are property of the government and have to work when told + it is made up of your brothers--and sisters) to the civilian (you are a free agent and nobody has a real bond to you) operating environment. I've heard this argument before and have been pilot management before and guess what? As a management team we always appreciated the pilots that worked overtime to cover shifts or 'flights.' We never gave any of them any extra special opportunities for that quality though, cause anyone can cover shifts and do their basic job. The extra opportunities and even airframe upgrades went to the pilots who showed great decision-making skills, efficient practices, and the aptitude to address/solve/improve issues within the operation. Some of those pilots also covered overtime a lot, but most didnt. The pilots that just fly and also just want to fly more can do that simple task. If that's what you want to do... thanks and here's the overtime pay for you. If being the OT guy makes you feel accomplished and better than everyone else... cool man. You are so awesome. Good job. If you're not the OT guy but show up as scheduled and do your job safely and efficiently... cool man. You're awesome. Good job.

I hope when the time comes in a real emergency, you might actually show up.

What does working overtime have to do with showing up in a real emergency? What is an emergency to you? I don't know why this word was chosen. Is an open shift an emergency? Is every flight an emergency to you? This isn't a mission. We are not first responders. The patients will likely never know your name and probably never even thank you. You drive a bus with spinning blades on it.

Its about being there for the guy next to you so everyone can enjoy the good.

When everyone helps a little it makes everyone's life better, kind of like coming in a few minutes early so you don't catch a late flight and get to go home on time.

It's about really caring about the the guy next to, it has nothing to do with the company that employ you.

That is a cop out and all you know it, you just can't see anything that does not benefit you.

how working over is "being there for the next guy" or makes somebody's elses "life better". lol what a goddamn moron

The fact the you can't see that is the problem.

the problem. How am I helping anybody by working OT. Let the shift go unfilled.

...kind of like coming in a few minutes early so you don't catch a late flight and get to go home on time.

The pilot you relieve early is there for 12-14hrs based on a defined shift time. Anything that happens during that is that pilot's responsibility. When you start earlier, you effectively end up with less time available for the end of your own shift. If "everyone does this" that is no different than having a scheduled shift start time. You log the start of your duty time correctly for the earlier relief, right? So you end up with less than 2hrs of 135 duty available to you at the next shift change (assuming 12hr shifts)... and you turn down a flight for that and we will want to know why you were coming in early. You just log shift times even though you started working early? When you get that late flight that hits that 14hr mark and someone notices you were at work early and performing work duties and we see you weren't logging duty time correctly.... you will have a problem.

here I thought we were talking about OT

All human beings work toward their own benefit. If you love overtime....that satisfies your own need to work overtime. If you feel that working overtime defines you as a good person... that is just filling your need to feel like a good person via your own definition of it. Sometimes our needs meet, sometimes they don't. But all humans work toward their own benefit. Mine is a broad range of life experiences and spending time with people that I care about and they care about me, which is like two people and a dog in my situation. Other people will be different, and that's fine.

OP- Over Time and base performance, future employment.. etc

When all people at the base step up for a short time everyone gets time off, etc.

What happens when all you pilots spout off about I want to do my thing is, you are doing that at the expense of the other guys at your base.

Congratulations you just like every other leech, leeching the animal tell it dies, and we all die.

That means the base moves to another program, closes, etc.

Man it must be great thinking the world revolves around yourself.

The expense of my base that stays fully staffed still? Ok. Maybe your experience is indicative of problems with your base, program managemen, or overall operation. That's where you should be concentrating your efforts and anger instead of getting flustered on the internet.

It is a problem throughout the HAA system.  Low time civilian pilots getting in over the head, miltards with bad attitudes because they can't do anything else with there limited talents. 

We end up with a screwed up system where pilots don't respect other pilots at the most base level.

AT THE BASE...

All the people talking about the company, the company, the company should do something about this.

Guess what you are part of that company and your attitude and beliefs become part of that company.

So look in the mirror when the problems mount, it is most likely you.

do you want to work over or not otherwise shut the eff up with your idiot thoughts on EMS

Hit that sore spot.  Jeez... calm down and have civil conversation.

just read the thread and then is it so much to ask that you post something that's even SLIGHTLY related to the topic? 

Pilots who work OT shifts should get paid more than pilots that don't, IE. end of the year bonus, higher raises, more time off.

Pilots who don't should get little to no raise, less time off because they have so much already, etc.

A bit more on topic...

Maybe the people who do the work should be promoted so the best leaders, hardest working guys pave the way to a better industry.

Check out Jacko's podcast and many other on taking responsibility, and leading the way.

Boom!

more.

get over yourself, hero.

Ultimate Loser, you must be great human to be around.

Have a nice day!

Keep drinking the Kool Aid Skippy.

AMC's continued mismanagement and shiity treatment of pilots and other staff is why bases have issues.

Could care less about work overs.  Happy trails on the compensation scales; could care less about that too.

Rich kid with trust,

or Military,

either way a big piece of...c...