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Msg ID: 2694319 IFR HAA programs +0/-2     
Author:Semi-Retired, Coming Back
6/27/2021 11:40:32 AM

When I last flew HEMS Part 135, 7 years ago, SPIFR was a very rare thing....VFR was the norm.  Now SPIFR almost dominates the ads of most companies for new pilot hires.  I am also seeing that those hired for SPIFR fly VFR the first six months of their employment - is this true?  Those with the required IFR credentials, in essence, have 6 months to get up to speed in their IFR skills before IFR checkride.  Again, is this true?  If this is the case, then demonstrating good VFR skills and fair IFR skills in the Sim for the interview ride should allow for an employment offer....I was turned down.  The Part 135 written was passed 100%, the interview went well.  4000 hours total helicopter, 239 hours IFR (dual pilot), 835 hours NVG, 1.5 years offshore, 8.5 years EMS, retired CW3.  Current Class II medical, current Helicopter BFR (26 Apr2021).  I don't believe there are a plethora of young bucks out there as skilled.....fire away!



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Msg ID: 2694320 IFR HAA programs +1/-0     
Author:Which company?
6/27/2021 11:42:07 AM

Reply to: 2694319

Only company that I know of that turns away qualified people for unknown reasons.



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Msg ID: 2694322 IFR HAA programs +1/-1     
Author:Semi-Retired, Coming Back
6/27/2021 11:57:51 AM

Reply to: 2694320

I haven't given up in applying with the various companies, so I will refrain from naming the operator.....just sayin'.



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Msg ID: 2694323 IFR HAA programs +2/-1     
Author:Well, this is anonymous.
6/27/2021 12:06:15 PM

Reply to: 2694322

I have heard Metro turns away qualified people after a sim ride which is pretty ridiculous.



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Msg ID: 2694476 IFR HAA programs +0/-0     
Author:iiieeeee
6/28/2021 6:47:27 PM

Reply to: 2694320

Who is Metreaux, Alex?



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Msg ID: 2694324 IFR HAA programs +4/-0     
Author:Metro Guy
6/27/2021 12:30:39 PM

Reply to: 2694319

Yes it is true that you get six months to prepare for IFR in your local area and in the new to you helicopter. There is more to getting a job than whats on your resume. Maybe it was felt that you would not fit in at the location you applied for? Maybe not but just saying there are many considerations.



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Msg ID: 2694360 IFR HAA programs +0/-0     
Author:Semi-Retired, Coming Back
6/27/2021 5:18:44 PM

Reply to: 2694324

Agreed, very good point.  Having worked for several operators previously was brought up, in my younger days I was intent on getting closer to home rather than being a constant traveler.  It doesn't necessarily create the warm fuzzies for the interviewers.  On the flip side, experience and maturity now dampens the desire to move around - just accept the position applied for for the duration.  Make sense?



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Msg ID: 2694325 Attitude +13/-1     
Author:is key
6/27/2021 12:35:03 PM

Reply to: 2694319

I'm by no means saying this is the case in your instance, and by the way you wrote your post I don't believe it is.

But, I'm just going to say for the others that are out there lurking. There are 2 openings at my base right now and I have turned away 2 VERY highly qualified pilots that by all indications had great piloting skill and impressive resumes. I turned them away because of their attitude and how they handled situations they were presented with. EMS is not about flying. Any old pilot with half an ounce of training can do EMS flying. But realitons with the crew and hospital managment is 95% of the job and if your attitude sucks and you are going to be a bigger pain in my side because of how you deal with them then I don't want you at my base.



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Msg ID: 2694327 Truth is they want applicants that are "in need" +4/-0     
Author:shy away from hirable pros
6/27/2021 12:46:47 PM

Reply to: 2694325

because the pay is low, they expect you to bail out too soon.

Amazing how pilots have to "get along" with med types, but med types are allowed to juat be richard-heads all they want.

I understand that you have to be a good fit, but in reality if they are not offering 90k for someone with reasonable skills, then they get what they pay for. If their investigation reveals that you should be hirable anywhere, they don't want to invest in you since you will leave sooner than later.



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Msg ID: 2694328 Truth is they want applicants that are "in need" +7/-1     
Author:Dumb yourself down
6/27/2021 12:59:50 PM

Reply to: 2694327

A lot of the guys doing the hiring don't want to hire anyone smarter than themselves. They want followers, not people who can think. All of the thinking has been done for you.



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Msg ID: 2694331 Truth is they want applicants that are "in need" +1/-5     
Author:I guess we found the guy
6/27/2021 1:05:53 PM

Reply to: 2694328

with the crap attitude. You wouldn't last a week if somebody made the mistake of hiring you.



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Msg ID: 2694365 Attitude +1/-0     
Author:Semi-Retired, Coming Back
6/27/2021 5:45:51 PM

Reply to: 2694325

Yes, agreed, attitude is of utmost importance.  In my case, I have experienced very good and not so good medical and maintenance personnel.  Experience is a great teacher - unfortunately, where I didn't fare as well in my interactions in the difficult situations, the majority good interactions can be tainted by the other.  Once again, experience and maturity will favor an improved outcome in the future.  Ideally there would be no adversarial situations.



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Msg ID: 2694379 Here’s You Answer +4/-3     
Author:Anonymous
6/27/2021 8:24:49 PM

Reply to: 2694319

You either came across as a p r i c k in the interview or there were a certain number of slots to be filled and and a certain number, plus one, of interviewees and you were the highest qualified and therefore the least likely to not do as you were told, the most likely to b*tch and complain and the most likely to call out somebody up the chain when they told you to do something unsafe or illegal.

Glad I could clear things up for you. 



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Msg ID: 2694384 Here’s You Answer +1/-0     
Author:Semi-Retired, Coming Back
6/27/2021 10:13:07 PM

Reply to: 2694379

Laughing my rear end off, thank you!!



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Msg ID: 2694399 Here’s You Answer +2/-0     
Author:That is the best way to treat anon posts
6/28/2021 8:59:39 AM

Reply to: 2694384

laugh or ignore them as he's clueless

 



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Msg ID: 2694402 Clueless is Clown Code +0/-0     
Author:Anonymous
6/28/2021 9:52:36 AM

Reply to: 2694399

...Clown Code for, I tell you the truth without any sugar coating or pretensions. 

The Clowns on JH can't handle that, which is why I'm as popular on here as a copy of Hustler in the Hymnal Rack at the Pentecostal Church.

Popularity ain't my game, though, so when a guy like the OP asks a question like that, I'm the one that gives him some real world guidance, instead of the p*ssy-footing and doubletalk that he will get from...The Clowns. 



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Msg ID: 2694410 Clueless is Clown Code +3/-0     
Author:uh, no
6/28/2021 10:38:24 AM

Reply to: 2694402

clueless just means you're clueless. That's pretty much it. You're not popular mostly because you are an idiot. lol



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Msg ID: 2694393 IFR HAA programs +4/-0     
Author:Army brat
6/28/2021 1:09:09 AM

Reply to: 2694319
You should have never mentioned the Army.


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Msg ID: 2694407 Here is the Way it Actually Works +6/-1     
Author:Anonymous
6/28/2021 10:27:34 AM

Reply to: 2694319

Most companies out there do this: They hire you for an SPIFR slot but tell you up front you'll spend six months VFR only. This is ostensibly to get you worked in to the aircraft type and the company way of doing things, without the pressure of having to judge whether to take an IFR flight. By that I mean, that the rules nowadays are so restrictive that unless you are somewhere like the desert Southwest, any little weather such as rain or fog conditions or whatever, like you have in normal areas of the Country, will be VFR show-stoppers. VFR only guys in 90% of the country probably turn down twice as many flights as they accept.

IFR capability will allow you to accept about half of what you turn down in a VFR-only operation, which is a signficant iincrease in business. And make no mistake, more flights and more revenue is why the expense of IFR equipment, IFR pilots, and IFR training is done--not service to the community, the good of mankind, etc., etc. It's about the Benjamins, Baby.

Now if you are a D o r k they will find some way to run you off duriing the six month VFR period. OTOH, if you are a real sharp guy and it's obvious you can handle it, and you are not some gauche socially inept Klutz who antagonizes people and therefore can't figure out how to get along with the others at the Base, AND they need IFR guys badly (read: want more revenue), THEN they just might send you early. In which case, you need to be able to get through the schoolhouse. 

This is sometimes a problem...I would say, in about 25% of cases...because, like it or not, helicopter pilots as a group have a lot of trouble flying instruments, even though they already have an Instrument Rating (it's required for hire now), and even though the training is real basic (i.e., starting from square one) and takes you right up through a full sim course and check ride. This is because helicopter pilots have two problems, one they hate and fear flying in the clouds because that's they way they have been trained and conditioned to be and because they are lazy, and two because generally, helicopter pilots think sloppy and loose when it comes to regulations and standards and doing business out on the line. Nothing personal but these last characteristics are just "the culture" of helicopter flying and if you actually have been trained and certificated as a helicopter pilot and are honest, you will know and understand what I'm talking about, and agree.

...Now, it doesn't matter if you, personally, are among the minority of helicopter pilots who are sharp and professional and stay in the books and always fly sharp and right. As soon as you meet anybody in the aviation community and are knows as a "helicopter pilot," the impression I've sketched above is the impression they have of you. They have to get to know you and see how you operate for them to have any better opinion of you, and that takes about six months, if it matters to you or to them. Sadly, for a lot of people, it just don't matter. 

Anyway, after you make it through school...assuming you do...they make another mistake (IMO) of putting you at high mins for a while, usually another six months. Meaning, you have to have better weather than in the Regs and the OPSPECs to take an IFR flight.

....Why I think this is a bad mistake is, the restrictions they layer on you during this "high mins" period mean that, right after training when you are booked-up and smart and sharp, it's tough for you to get weather enough for many actual IFR flights (see, weather conditions are usually either, a) good enough for VFR, or b) crappy enough for you to have to use Reg/OPSPEC mins). ...So, what happens is that you end up d*ck*ng around for six months not getting experience in the clouds and therefore staying scared of it, and then you lose your ability, and then, Wham-O, it's time for your six-month ride and you jump in out of practice and are real klutzy and maybe even fail the ride. It happens.

So what "they" want you to do nowadays is to do a practice IFR flight every so often, usually once per month. Another thing you can do (but few do) is to file IFR on return legs even if it's VFR, in order to stay in practice of operating within the system. There are obstacles to this because a) the Med Crews are usually in a hurry to get back to Base to start the paperwork, and b) Helicopter Pilots are generally pretty lazy (see above).

To conclude, if you make it through the process and aren't skeered o' clouds and learn the system and do what you can within the Regs and OPSPECs, you can expect your flight volume to go up 10 or 15 percent and that's significant. After a year or two you might even have the makings of an actually competent IFR Pilot (if, from prior experience you weren't already...some guys are), which will separate you from roughly 95% of the Helicopter Pilot population--not that anybody (like your employer, or your fellow pilots) will give a damn.

Have a Nice Day. 



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Msg ID: 2694412 Here is the Way it Actually Works +0/-6     
Author:wow
6/28/2021 10:41:39 AM

Reply to: 2694407

Imagine spending all that time writing clueless bullsh*t?



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Msg ID: 2694416 Here is the Way it Actually Works +7/-0     
Author:anon describes himself
6/28/2021 11:20:25 AM

Reply to: 2694407

 gauche socially inept Klutz who antagonizes people and therefore can't figure out how to get along with the others 


Damn, that sums it up pretty well.



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Msg ID: 2695521 IFR HAA programs +1/-0     
Author:Less
7/7/2021 7:29:58 PM

Reply to: 2694319

Than 10,000 hours helicopter is a junior pilot, that's why.



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Msg ID: 2695890 IFR HAA programs +0/-0     
Author:Seems
7/10/2021 5:59:36 PM

Reply to: 2695521

like the last word has been spoken.



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