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Msg ID: 2691437 Flying with discrepancies.  +12/-0     
Author:Uuue
6/5/2021 10:33:46 AM

I am a float pilot for a large HAA company. I basically travel nationwide week on week off or somewhat close to a week on week off. As I go to all these bases I am finding that Pilots don't like to write aircraft deficiencies up and continue to fly with no discrepancie write ups because they think they're helping the maintenance department and mechanic out?

The practice of flying with a known discrepancy is an epidemic. 

Why do Pilots do this? It forces me as the float pilot to be in a predicament of having to bite my tongue and not say anything or start becoming unpopular around the company.

Questions comments concerns?



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Msg ID: 2691438 Flying with discrepancies.  +1/-1     
Author:Doubter
6/5/2021 10:51:37 AM

Reply to: 2691437

What are some examples of the discrepancies you are seeing that are not documented?



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Msg ID: 2691441 Flying with discrepancies.  +1/-0     
Author:#1
6/5/2021 10:58:40 AM

Reply to: 2691438

Believe it or not I had 1 guy tell me the Attitude indicator had been broken for 3 days. Didn't want to bother Main. And yes he was flying it 



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Msg ID: 2691464 AI inop for 3 days? That's nothing! Had a #2 engine (NT) +6/-0     
Author:out for a week once.
6/5/2021 1:58:56 PM

Reply to: 2691441


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Msg ID: 2691489 AI inop for 3 days? That's nothing! Had a #2 engine  +2/-2     
Author:OEI
6/5/2021 4:39:14 PM

Reply to: 2691464

But you weren't flying it. So it was out of service.



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Msg ID: 2691514 Took off 30 gallons of fuel and she flew just fine (NT) +0/-0     
Author:Anonymous
6/5/2021 7:40:01 PM

Reply to: 2691489


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Msg ID: 2691515 Took off 30 gallons of fuel and she flew just fine (NT) +0/-0     
Author:Anonymous
6/5/2021 7:40:02 PM

Reply to: 2691489


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Msg ID: 2691528 Took off 30 gallons of fuel and she flew just fine +2/-0     
Author:Troll repellent
6/5/2021 8:13:26 PM

Reply to: 2691515

Total crap. That never happened. Try again troll.



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Msg ID: 2691458 Flying with discrepancies.  +7/-0     
Author:Been there
6/5/2021 1:21:48 PM

Reply to: 2691438

You want examples??!!  How about the hydraulic switch wired backwards - on is really off, off is really on....engine inlet anti-ice, wired backwards, on all the time, almost hot start each time.....collective tube and friction corroded together under the seat platform, mechanic tried to swing at me when base lead called him in to fix the problem - they both put giant channel locks on the friction knob to "loosen" it, snapped it off in the threaded boss.......HAA is full of idiots, safety is only a word, make the cash no matter what!



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Msg ID: 2691439 Flying with discrepancies.  +6/-0     
Author:Yup me too
6/5/2021 10:55:31 AM

Reply to: 2691437

I grounded a helicopter 3 times in one week BM complained to the CP. CP said I was doing my job. 



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Msg ID: 2691442 Flying with discrepancies.  +6/-0     
Author::-)
6/5/2021 11:10:27 AM

Reply to: 2691437
Yeah, I don't get it. Perhaps part of the problem is not understanding the MEL. I can't speak to other companies, but the one I fly for has an MEL that provides significant flexibility when a discrepancy is encountered. Documentation is a bit of a pain, but nothing too inconvenient.


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Msg ID: 2691473 Flying with discrepancies.  +4/-0     
Author:Not an MEL fan
6/5/2021 2:55:47 PM

Reply to: 2691442

I am not a huge fan of the MEL process......  too many times maintenance will be contacted and say ok MEL it and go back in service... with out even looking at what is wrong.    The MEL does have a place if used correctly. but more often than not it allows maintenance to wait until the last day of the MEL to expire before even looking at something and realizing it was a quick fix.    



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Msg ID: 2691538 Flying with discrepancies.  +0/-0     
Author:ems
6/5/2021 9:07:12 PM

Reply to: 2691473

  The MEL definitely has its place -- and some items do not need a mechanic to look at prior to a pilot MELing the system --  normally a maintenance action (M)  required column lists if a mechanic needs to look at or not.   MEL items should be troubleshot and repaired as timely as possible -- a mechanic does not need to come in and troubleshoot that night but as soon as possible.  Get the parts ASAP and when the part comes in if applicable change immediately.   Items should be repaired with  "sense of urgency" or it is an abuse of the MEL system...

 



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Msg ID: 2691443 YOU have a duty and responsibility to do so +6/-0     
Author:Capt. Grounded
6/5/2021 11:34:23 AM

Reply to: 2691437

135.65 The pilot in command shall enter or have entered in the aircrafta> maintenance log each mechanical irregularity that comes to the pilot's attention during flight time.

I am sure there is a similar statement in your ops manual.  

We can not pick and choose which Regs we wish to comply with.  Very Simple.  I write things up all the time.  Only takes deferral by MEL or  parts and a pen to get back airworthy.

 



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Msg ID: 2691465 Flying with discrepancies.  +4/-0     
Author:Mechanic was “too overworked “
6/5/2021 2:34:11 PM

Reply to: 2691457

lol



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Msg ID: 2691462 Flying with discrepancies.  +7/-0     
Author:OG
6/5/2021 1:49:35 PM

Reply to: 2691437

Things don't get written up because pilots don't want to make waves and the culture of some companies support this nonsense. It has been an aviation fact for ever, pilots fly the aircraft they are willing to accept. If the company culture is that faults are required to be written up, they tend to get written up. 

Even in companies with poor cultures the mechanic figure out which pilots will write up faults and treat these pilots in a different manner. When mechanics know you will document faults they take some type of positive action. For years I've told mechanic that if I think its broken I'll write the problem up. It becomes their problem to fix or to sign off the writeup as entered in error. It's not personal it's professional.

When I started in commerical aviation it was not uncommon to show up and have the pilot I was replacing hand me a note telling me about all the undocumented problems. It was an issue for our company that took time to overcome.



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Msg ID: 2691468 Flying with discrepancies.  +6/-0     
Author:Comfort level
6/5/2021 2:40:30 PM

Reply to: 2691462

I believe some pilots might be more comfortable accepting minor discrepancies and remaining in their primary aircraft, which has an established consistency of attention. Go out of service and they get a spare aircraft, and deal with a lot of unknowns, as they are not usually cared for. 



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Msg ID: 2691570 Flying with discrepancies.  +0/-0     
Author:philofthenorth
6/6/2021 1:20:03 AM

Reply to: 2691468

Tha's a separate problem. Backup A/C should be maintained as if they were on line, because at tome they will be.



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Msg ID: 2691488 Flying with discrepancies.  +3/-3     
Author:A. Vionix
6/5/2021 4:37:57 PM

Reply to: 2691462

Just as it's your responsibility to write up discrepancies, it is also your responsibility to know your aircraft well enough to not write up non discrepancies. 



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Msg ID: 2691502 Flying with discrepancies.  +1/-0     
Author:Four
6/5/2021 6:30:26 PM

Reply to: 2691488

That was the stupidest thing I've ever heard of about not writing up your aircraft For things that are not airworthy. That's what they make the NEF for in addition to the MEL.  



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Msg ID: 2691522 Flying with discrepancies.  +4/-0     
Author:Pilot Error
6/5/2021 7:59:42 PM

Reply to: 2691502

You are probably the one who writes up discrepancies like annunciator inop. Mech goes out and turns day night switch to day,wasting his time, causing down time, having to write "day night switch set to day, annunciator checked and found okay."

If you aren't the one, then you haven't been in the business long enough to know what is stupid. You are too much of a greenhorn to not know what you don't know. You would have been much better off not displaying your ignorance. For your information, discrepancies like that should NEVER be written up.



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Msg ID: 2691535 Flying with discrepancies.  +1/-2     
Author:Blunter
6/5/2021 8:37:41 PM

Reply to: 2691522

That's why they have the NEF write up you dumb asssss you probably are too stupid to know what one is?

 



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Msg ID: 2691549 Flying with discrepancies.  +4/-1     
Author:Pilots
6/5/2021 10:30:23 PM

Reply to: 2691535

Hey idiot, the annunciator panel is not in non essential furnishings. Damn you sure know how to advertise your ignorance.



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Msg ID: 2691556 Flying with discrepancies.  +1/-1     
Author:Blunt
6/5/2021 11:30:17 PM

Reply to: 2691549

Boy you really are a dingdong. The NEF non-essential furnishings list has write ups where you can write what you need in there if the mechanic DM is willing to sign it off as being not an airworthy item you're good to go. You obviously don't know what the fart you're talking about.   Yes you can write up the annunciator panel and you're good to go.  But it's mainly used for things like interior panels stretcher covers seat covers things like that



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Msg ID: 2691561 Flying with discrepancies.  +7/-0     
Author:Errol
6/6/2021 12:05:42 AM

Reply to: 2691556

Hey moron. The annunciator panel is safety of flight. It can NEVER be written up as an NEF discrepancy, and then be signed off as airworthy.

Did you just start yesterday? Give yourself a couple of years to get out of your greenhorn mentality, and resolve some of your ignorance, and stubbornness.



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Msg ID: 2691548 Not every outfit has an authorized NEF program (NT) +2/-0     
Author:for the little stuff
6/5/2021 10:29:14 PM

Reply to: 2691488


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Msg ID: 2691517 Yup! particularly at HBS where hospital makes all the HR decisions for (NT) +0/-0     
Author:certificate holder, who just nods
6/5/2021 7:42:14 PM

Reply to: 2691462


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Msg ID: 2691470 It's really weird, stuff only seems to break when I'm on duty (NT) +1/-0     
Author:I must be a real bad luck charm
6/5/2021 2:45:46 PM

Reply to: 2691437


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Msg ID: 2691493 It's really weird, stuff only seems to break when I'm on duty  +1/-2     
Author:wrench
6/5/2021 5:27:40 PM

Reply to: 2691470

MEL



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Msg ID: 2691501 Flying with discrepancies.  +7/-0     
Author:Mech
6/5/2021 6:22:22 PM

Reply to: 2691437

Many times I was asked by a Pilot, "Do you want me to write this discrepancy up?" 

My answer was always the same, If you write it up, one of three things is going to happen. #1 I'm going to fix the problem. #2. If I can't fix it, I'll see if it can be MEL'd so you can continue with your scheduled flight(s) and order any parts that might be needed. #3. If I can't do either one or the other, it is grounded and you will have to find another aircraft to finish your day. 
The choice is yours, it doesn't matter to me. It will get fixed now or later.

Mechanics should be very careful about discussing whether or not a discrepancy should be documented. It may come back to bite you. 



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Msg ID: 2691518 you weren't a mechanic very long, I take it! (NT) +0/-2     
Author:Anonymous
6/5/2021 7:43:52 PM

Reply to: 2691501


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Msg ID: 2691519 you weren't a mechanic very long, I take it! +4/-0     
Author:Mech
6/5/2021 7:46:50 PM

Reply to: 2691518

My career in aviation started in 1973. Yours? Their are some Pilots that are laughing as they read that because they have heard it before and know who wrote it. 



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Msg ID: 2691521 you weren't a mechanic very long, I take it! +0/-1     
Author:Mech
6/5/2021 7:48:37 PM

Reply to: 2691519

"There..." wish this site had an edit featur. 



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Msg ID: 2691534 "my career in aviation".... so, you weren't a mechanic very long then (NT) +0/-6     
Author:Anonymous
6/5/2021 8:36:26 PM

Reply to: 2691519


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Msg ID: 2691667 Flying with discrepancies.  +0/-1     
Author:wrong answer sport...
6/6/2021 4:50:22 PM

Reply to: 2691501

Many times I was asked by a Pilot, "Do you want me to write this discrepancy up?"

 

"YES"



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Msg ID: 2691958 Flying with discrepancies.  +1/-0     
Author:Mech
6/8/2021 10:40:20 PM

Reply to: 2691667

Nope, not the wrong answer.  I'm not going to get in that battle between You and Ops when they scream at you for taking it out of service and there is no spare. It is your call, your responsibility per the regs. 



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Msg ID: 2691504 Funny... +1/-1     
Author:thing...
6/5/2021 6:38:14 PM

Reply to: 2691437
the pilot always wanted me to write up the disc because he said that was the mechanics responsibility. I simply showed him the 135 ref above and walked away. Write it up is my mantra.


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Msg ID: 2691523 Flying with discrepancies. (NT) +0/-0     
Author:Just
6/5/2021 8:02:17 PM

Reply to: 2691437


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Msg ID: 2691525 Flying with discrepancies.  +4/-0     
Author:Write
6/5/2021 8:05:55 PM

Reply to: 2691437

It up already.  Don't sink to the inexc level of the others.  Discrepancies can be fixed or deferred. Of acct is grounded till fixed or deferred.  You're not helping anyone by sitting in silence



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Msg ID: 2691572 Flying with discrepancies.  +1/-0     
Author:philofthenorth
6/6/2021 1:28:47 AM

Reply to: 2691525

And base managers or any level of Operations should have no say in A/C flight worthiness. 



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Msg ID: 2691533 Flying with discrepancies.  +6/-1     
Author:F UUUE
6/5/2021 8:27:59 PM

Reply to: 2691437

maybe there are some good pilots out there that still have common sense, obvioulsy you dont.



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Msg ID: 2691577 Flying with discrepancies.  +1/-0     
Author:OG
6/6/2021 5:17:09 AM

Reply to: 2691533

Common sense is a relative thing. Every commercial company has approved and accepted procedurs when it comes to aircraft faults. Just follow the procedures. Common sense is a decision factor not a maintenance factor. If we just follow the rules and procedures we are going to be safer in the long run. 

The whole design of RFMs, and limitations, rules and procedures are to protect us from applying common sense that is wrong. The scary part is it only takes one failure of "common sense" to kill you.

 

  



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Msg ID: 2691585 Flying with discrepancies.  +1/-0     
Author:To OP
6/6/2021 8:54:07 AM

Reply to: 2691437

You said "it forces me to be in a ....."

That's the problem right there. Allowing feelings to interfere with good judgement. Write er up.



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Msg ID: 2691639 Flying with discrepancies.  +0/-1     
Author:Being a float pilot is not
6/6/2021 1:35:24 PM

Reply to: 2691437

It's not for everyone, just saying.



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Msg ID: 2691744 It's nkt a discrepancies until you write it up (NT) +0/-1     
Author:Anonymous
6/7/2021 9:30:26 AM

Reply to: 2691437


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Msg ID: 2691746 It's nkt a discrepancies until you write it up  +0/-0     
Author:tiger
6/7/2021 9:33:23 AM

Reply to: 2691744

It's pretty obvious you worked for Houston Helicopters.



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Msg ID: 2691772 It's nkt a discrepancies until you write it up  +0/-0     
Author:JT
6/7/2021 1:25:34 PM

Reply to: 2691744

Once you got on your comm and told the world you had a transmission chip light that wouldn't extinguish or smoke in the cockpit it became a known discrepancy at that moment. 



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Msg ID: 2691777 Flying with discrepancies.  +1/-0     
Author:Peon
6/7/2021 2:02:02 PM

Reply to: 2691437

I doubt there is a helicopter out there on the line in any type of operation, that doesn't have discrepancies not written up. You go to a base and do a workover, discover a "discrepancy" and write it up. To the normal crew, it was not a "discrepancy" because they were used to it and it was just part of the helicopter's personality or just the way it is. I'm not talking about flight critical or job critical items. But some of you want to gripe and complain and write up everything! Fuel flow light flickered, Davtron has portion of display missing for first few minutes of operation, comm picks up static near metal hangar, etc. 

Use a little common sense and get to work. 



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Msg ID: 2691872 Flying with discrepancies.  +2/-0     
Author:Always always
6/8/2021 11:33:05 AM

Reply to: 2691437

Always, write it up as a float pilot, you are the first to get dinged by the company and violated by the Feds if they turn up and spot it. So what if it makes you unpopular at that base, you move on. As an HAA float pilot of 14 years, I approach the first preflight of my first day in a new aircraft at a new base, looking for something to ground it. If I can't find anything and the logbooks check out, I'm happy to put my butt in that aircraft. I cannot count the number of times I have found discreancies not written up. THATS MY JOB! safety is number #1, I dont pay lip service to it, 40 years flying helicopters without (touch wood) an accident.

Read the regs, you are in violation and in violation of your ops manual too ,if you fly a known discrepancy that affects the airworthiness and the safety of flight

And this is an HSI I once found on my first preflight of an aircraft, been flying like it for a couple of weeks according to the crew. GROUNDED IT!!!!!!

 




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Msg ID: 2691875 Flying with discrepancies.  +0/-0     
Author:fat fingers
6/8/2021 12:01:02 PM

Reply to: 2691872

Betcha I know how that got broke. They never learn.



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Msg ID: 2691933 Flying with discrepancies.  +0/-0     
Author:emsr
6/8/2021 6:33:42 PM

Reply to: 2691875

meth-heads... all of ya !



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Msg ID: 2691952 Flying with discrepancies.  +1/-0     
Author:Do the
6/8/2021 8:52:20 PM

Reply to: 2691437

right thing.  Only you have to live with you!



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