| Msg ID: 2690753 |
Give this duty-time sheet a rest, will ya +2/-0
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| Author:It is what it is
5/30/2021 8:01:40 PM |
Zed |
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| Msg ID: 2690754 |
You realize it's just the Union trying to impose some labor issue (NT) +1/-0
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| Author:they can't negotiate lying about FARs?
5/30/2021 8:06:12 PM Reply to: 2690753 |
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| Msg ID: 2690825 |
Here is a scheduling solution to this problem: +0/-0
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| Author:Anonymous
5/31/2021 1:21:25 PM Reply to: 2690753 |
A-B-C-D shift work! A's shift starts at 0800 and ends at 1600, 8 hours scheduled, leaving 6 hours to play with legally. B's shift starts at 1600 and ends at 0000, ditto C's shift starts at 0800 and ends at 0800, ditto D is OFF They are scheduled for two shifts each, then slide to the next later shift, so A moves to B, B moved to C, C moves to OFF, and D moves to A. Another two days pass and they shift again. Nit likely to ever get neat going over 14 that way, which is good since the longer you work, the more dangerous you become. [Be careful what you wish for!] |
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| Msg ID: 2690826 |
Give this duty-time sheet a rest, will ya (NT) +0/-0
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| Author:Nobody needs to fly after 12, go home
5/31/2021 1:22:50 PM Reply to: 2690753 |
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| Msg ID: 2690829 |
Can you cite any HAA accidents attributed to flying past 14 hrs (NT) +0/-1
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| Author:of DUTY?
5/31/2021 1:31:55 PM Reply to: 2690826 |
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| Msg ID: 2690830 |
There Are A Plethora Of Accidents Where +0/-0
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| Author:Fatigue Was A Causal Factor
5/31/2021 1:36:17 PM Reply to: 2690829 |
Do you not remember the crew who overflow Minneapolis without descending because they were asleep? NorthWest Flight 188 |
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| Msg ID: 2690834 |
Asked you to cite any HAA that was caused by over 14 being +0/-0
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| Author:issue. NTSB cites fatigue when...
5/31/2021 1:47:00 PM Reply to: 2690830 |
... the guy just gets back from a vacation and he hasn't even been working 5 hours yet as FATIGUE. It's a rubber stamp contributing factor for them! |
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| Msg ID: 2690836 |
Asked you to cite any HAA that was caused by over 14 being +0/-0
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| Author:Fatigue Is Not An Immunity Just
5/31/2021 1:48:53 PM Reply to: 2690834 |
Because you are conducting HEMS or HAA. You realize that, don't you? |
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| Msg ID: 2690837 |
Two things about flight 188 +0/-0
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| Author:Anonymous
5/31/2021 1:52:53 PM Reply to: 2690830 |
1. They were well within their DUTY DAY requirements (REST requirements) and 2) They were playing on their PDAs/laptops looking at scheduling bid packets, they were not not asleep or tired, but DISTRACTED |
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| Msg ID: 2690839 |
Two things about flight 188 +0/-0
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| Author:Nap Time
5/31/2021 2:00:11 PM Reply to: 2690837 |
That's what they claimed, but that is just as bad or worse than being asleep. It would show a complete disregard for the safety or the aircraft and passengers. It was also claimed they were having a heated argument. It was almost certain that they were asleep, as they missed 1 hour of radio calls, and had not prepared for a descent until well overflying their destination without descending. From their altitude a descent at a standard rate would have taken 30 minutes. Fatigue was also listed as a causal factor in the Colman Q400 Flight 3407 in Buffalo. |
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| Msg ID: 2690857 |
No, they CLAIMED they fell asleep.... and the investigation determined +0/-0
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| Author:they were awake playing on their PEDs
5/31/2021 4:28:17 PM Reply to: 2690839 |
In a conversation about scheduling. |
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| Msg ID: 2690859 |
No, they CLAIMED they fell asleep.... and the investigation determined +0/-0
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| Author:Nap Time
5/31/2021 5:38:52 PM Reply to: 2690857 |
That was based on pilot testimony. The aircrew almost surely were lying. The CVR could not verify that, because it was a continuous loop 30 minute CVR. I don't care how much playing you do with a PED, now way can you miss an hour of ATC calls, unless you are asleep. Both of them. |
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| Msg ID: 2690899 |
They were obviously lying? Claiming the were playing on PED over falling +0/-0
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| Author:asleep, to protect their asses?
5/31/2021 9:29:59 PM Reply to: 2690859 |
Pretty absurd premise youbjust gave, Being tired and falling asleep would be the better excuse, not willfully disregarding FARs and policy claiming the became totally distracted using their computers. How was that supposed to be hpful in their defense? |
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| Msg ID: 2690913 |
They were obviously lying? Claiming the were playing on PED over falling +0/-0
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| Author:Bed Time
6/1/2021 2:51:03 AM Reply to: 2690899 |
Not absurd at all. You can't be awake, and miss 1 hour of ATC calls. Neither excuse will satisfy the FAA or NWA. Bill Voss with the Flight Safety Foundation happens to agree with me. |
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| Msg ID: 2690920 |
Bill Voss was commenting within 3 day his "theory" to the news, and it was +0/-0
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| Author:NTSB, FAA & pilot's themselves rejected
6/1/2021 8:46:16 AM Reply to: 2690913 |
Falling asleep would have been 5he easy excuse for these pilot's to use in their defense. They were being honest! And Mr Voss was on a personal advocating mission against cockpit automation (autopilot technology) because he believed it made pilot's bored, causing drowsiness, so it was something that fit his narrative and "hypothesis". He wanted them to have fallen asleep to boost his reputation as a subject matter "expert" |
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| Msg ID: 2690938 |
Bill Voss was commenting within 3 day his "theory" to the news, and it was +0/-0
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| Author:Bed Time
6/1/2021 11:38:54 AM Reply to: 2690920 |
In your mind, 2 pilots falling asleep is an excuse for overflying your destination, without descending, and missing an hour of ATC calls? It is preposterous. Are you more of a subject matter expert Than Voss? If so, please identify your expertise. You don't know that the pilots told the truth, they told varying versions. None of it could be corroborated. None of their attempts to explain away the incident take into account the most damning evidence, that no descent preparation had taken place, and that the pilots missed 1 hours of ATC calls. That itself is an egregious error. Most controllers on center frequency get irritated if you miss 1 radio call. |
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| Msg ID: 2690855 |
Give this duty-time sheet a rest, will ya +0/-0
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| Author:Utility slug
5/31/2021 4:23:19 PM Reply to: 2690753 |
Sleep all night then have to fly an hour. Tough it out! |
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