| Msg ID: 2690492 |
So, nothing really changes, 109! +0/-2
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| Author:Anonymous
5/28/2021 10:10:26 AM |
"Pilots SHOULD schedule training during their off-week, if possible, and to the best of their ability. There is a large enough scheduling window where this should not be a problem. However, if any reasonable and legitimate conflicts arise or exist that a Pilot cannot attend training during their off-week, the Pilot needs to immediately communicate with their manager(s) for other options and accommodations." Nothing changed here. Should on there week off unless unreasonable or legitimate conflicts exist. That how it already was. It is not a reasonable or legitimate excuse to claim "I'm not doing it because I don't want to," when you could have and should have! There is no big WIN here because NOTHING has changed! |
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| Msg ID: 2690494 |
So, nothing really changes, 109! +4/-1
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| Author:Former AMC
5/28/2021 10:29:18 AM Reply to: 2690492 |
So what is the issue? You don't want to go to Denver during your off week? Really? 4 days at the most, including travel. It is a burden On your busy life. And you have to do it once a year!! Do what I did, quit and go to another company. |
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| Msg ID: 2690501 |
So, nothing really changes, 109! +1/-0
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| Author:You'll
5/28/2021 11:49:29 AM Reply to: 2690494 |
Be WAAAYYY better off too!! |
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| Msg ID: 2690502 |
You are so stunning, and brave, for posting this. +2/-0
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| Author:Anonymous
5/28/2021 11:56:35 AM Reply to: 2690492 |
Go post on your union forum. |
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| Msg ID: 2690503 |
Yeah, I had a problem with that too. Still would. +3/-0
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| Author:R D Nekk
5/28/2021 12:12:32 PM Reply to: 2690492 |
"So what is the issue? You don't want to go to Denver during your off week? Really? 4 days at the most, including travel. It is a burden On your busy life. And you have to do it once a year!!" Ignorance is bliss. Why is my scheduled training on my week off? The idea is that I work for the company 'X' number of scheduled days and I get 'X' number of days off. If the commpany wishes me to report for duty elsewhere than my assigned base, the travel and whatever days should be on the agreed schedule, not my off days. Perhaps things have changed at the training department, they had big plans for new installations and assigned aircraft and syllabi when I was last there 7 years ago, but the issues seemed systemic to me- everything was ad hoc, jury-rigged. Even the instructors were unhappy having to travel to Denver for the grab-arse training schedule. 4 days of maybe days, maybe nights were, more than occasionally, not enough time. Especially doing the flight training at night in high summer when the nights are short and start late. |
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| Msg ID: 2690504 |
P.S, Who hires and assigns spare pilots? The company. (NT) +0/-0
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| Author:R D Nekk
5/28/2021 12:13:39 PM Reply to: 2690503 |
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| Msg ID: 2690509 |
Yeah, I had a problem with that too. Still would. +2/-0
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| Author:Hmmmm...
5/28/2021 12:20:17 PM Reply to: 2690503 |
Yep Air Meathead Corruption= |
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Crapola!| Msg ID: 2690539 |
BECAUSE your contact says it SHOULD be! And, gives +0/-0
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| Author:exceptions for when it shouldn't be.
5/28/2021 3:33:28 PM Reply to: 2690503 |
Your premise is based on the when it SHOULDN'T BE Part! |
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| Msg ID: 2690558 |
Yeah, I had a problem with that too. Still would. (NT) +0/-0
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| Author:You are the reason unions exist!
5/28/2021 6:36:50 PM Reply to: 2690503 |
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| Msg ID: 2690510 |
109 ENFORCED the contract and STOPPED the company mandate. It’s called (NT) +1/-1
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| Author:WINNING
5/28/2021 12:20:28 PM Reply to: 2690492 |
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| Msg ID: 2690542 |
SHOULD is a company mandate unless it is for unusual and approved (NT) +0/-0
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| Author:reasons. Don't want to is NOT a reason!
5/28/2021 3:44:13 PM Reply to: 2690510 |
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| Msg ID: 2690545 |
IOWs, nothing chanced and you WON nothing new! (NT) +0/-0
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| Author:You probably only made it WORSE!
5/28/2021 3:50:08 PM Reply to: 2690542 |
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| Msg ID: 2690568 |
When company violates contract and Unions forces them comply (NT) +0/-0
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| Author:That’s winning. What Unions do
5/28/2021 9:28:18 PM Reply to: 2690545 |
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| Msg ID: 2690573 |
They haven't violated the contract, CBA says THEY schedule +0/-0
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| Author:and pilot's SHOULD go when OFF
5/28/2021 10:01:10 PM Reply to: 2690568 |
It's not a violation of the contract for FOLLOWING it. You have likely now made it worse! You've WON nothing! But why would you care anyway, it doesn't affect you! |
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| Msg ID: 2690577 |
U can’t say “ha, nothing changed” just to say the Union made it worse... (NT) +0/-0
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| Author:You’re in denial of reality
5/29/2021 6:28:37 AM Reply to: 2690573 |
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| Msg ID: 2690583 |
Didn't! Said NOTHING has changed and you've +0/-0
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| Author:"...likely made it worse." Please....
5/29/2021 9:05:48 AM Reply to: 2690577 |
Pay attention to the details! It is important if you are trying to earn respect as a useful negotiator! |
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| Msg ID: 2690594 |
You’re right.you know more than ACTUAL lawyers with those (NT) +0/-0
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| Author:QUITTER skills
5/29/2021 11:13:32 AM Reply to: 2690583 |
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| Msg ID: 2690607 |
FAA Chief Council's office are lawyers. (NT) +0/-0
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| Author:See Slater (2015)
5/29/2021 11:31:50 AM Reply to: 2690594 |
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| Msg ID: 2690617 |
Exactly. They are lawyers, you are NOT! They are correct and (NT) +0/-0
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| Author:You are WRONG! Again
5/29/2021 1:12:53 PM Reply to: 2690607 |
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| Msg ID: 2690640 |
That's right, they are correct. Part 91 of OK after 14 (NT) +0/-0
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| Author:See Slater (2015) they wrote it
5/29/2021 5:12:27 PM Reply to: 2690617 |
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| Msg ID: 2690574 |
They haven't violated the contract, CBA says THEY schedule +0/-0
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| Author:and pilot's SHOULD go when OFF
5/28/2021 10:28:22 PM Reply to: 2690568 |
It's not a violation of the contract for FOLLOWING it. You have likely now made it worse! You've WON nothing! But why would you care anyway, it doesn't affect you! |
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| Msg ID: 2690576 |
As a lawyer u don’t understand legal standard of “WILL/SHALL” vs “SHOULD” (NT) +0/-0
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| Author:Very well do you?
5/29/2021 6:27:34 AM Reply to: 2690574 |
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| Msg ID: 2690580 |
As in SHALL be removed without pay and SHALL remain off +0/-0
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| Author:flight schedule until qualified?
5/29/2021 8:28:38 AM Reply to: 2690576 |
Pay attention to the SHALL's in the contract. And consider it against the "is" in the second section. Company "is" responsible for scheduling and Pilot "shall" be removed if he doesn't have a legitimate reason! Quote: (15.1.B) It is incumbent upon the Pilot to ensure that he maintains his qualifications. If the Company determines that the Pilot does not possess the necessary qualifications or certifications to operate the aircraft he shall be removed from flight status without pay snd shall remain off flight status until the necessary qualifications or certifications have been obtained, however such removal shall be with pay if the lapse of qualifications or certifications was due to circumstances beyond the Pilot’s control. (15.1.C) The Training Department is responsible for scheduling training dates and locations. If a Pilot is unable to attend training during the scheduled training dates due to illness, injury, a reasonable unforeseen absence, or previously approved excused absence, the Pilot and the Training Department will agree to alternative dates to complete the training. Unquote. |
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| Msg ID: 2690582 |
Seems you only get to the pilot and company agreeing on dates +0/-0
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| Author:after the pilot had an approved absence
5/29/2021 8:58:31 AM Reply to: 2690580 |
Not when he chooses he doesn't want to go in between his 182.5 "scheduled work shifts" [that are defined by contract NOT to include graining and associated travel) You have WON nothing! |
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| Msg ID: 2690592 |
Seems your lawyer skills and logic are waaay off still (NT) +0/-0
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| Author:Just like the Duty Day stuff
5/29/2021 11:10:58 AM Reply to: 2690582 |
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| Msg ID: 2690599 |
See Slater 2015 for details! (NT) +0/-0
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| Author:Anonymous
5/29/2021 11:20:17 AM Reply to: 2690592 |
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| Msg ID: 2690618 |
I did. You are wrong. Reading comprehension is hard for you (NT) +0/-0
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| Author:We get it
5/29/2021 1:13:46 PM Reply to: 2690599 |
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| Msg ID: 2690642 |
Here is Slater 2015 again, in plain English. +1/-0
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| Author:No elaborate comprehension skills needed
5/29/2021 6:55:44 PM Reply to: 2690618 |
Reading plain English is easy. Surprised you are having trouble with it yourself. Here it is in plain English for you to read (and comprehend) too: From Slater 2015: "For flights operated under part 135, the required rest times as provided in§§ 135.263 through 135.271 would apply to any part 91 flights that occur before or between any flight segments, but not to part 91 flights that take place after flight segments. However, the part 91 flights would not be considered rest, so the applicable rest requirements would need to be met prior to assigning a flightcrew member to additional part 135 duty and flight time." I hope you are not consiering the entirety of Slater to apply to Part 135 operations, because it doesn't, it discussing Part 117 operations. Then, issues a clear statement that Part 135 is not included, as you've just read (and hopefully comprehended finally} Slater states that Part 91 operations are acceptable after the Part 135 operations are concluded, and under Part 91, there are NO DUTY restrictions. None! |
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| Msg ID: 2690593 |
Pilots can SELF schedule thanks to the Union..this says they have no option (NT) +0/-0
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| Author:Union-2. Company-0 on this
5/29/2021 11:12:13 AM Reply to: 2690582 |
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| Msg ID: 2690598 |
Correct, and it should be on their off shift days IAW CBA (NT) +0/-0
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| Author:else Company will schedule it IAW CBA
5/29/2021 11:19:27 AM Reply to: 2690593 |
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| Msg ID: 2690602 |
Should be off week. If not, Pilot must agree to dates. It’s not that hard (NT) +0/-0
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| Author:Except for you it seems
5/29/2021 11:21:23 AM Reply to: 2690598 |
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| Msg ID: 2690611 |
Should be off week. I agree with that. And, ONLY legitimate excuses (NT) +0/-0
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| Author:for it not to be! Else TNG schedules it
5/29/2021 11:56:02 AM Reply to: 2690602 |
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| Msg ID: 2690511 |
AMC tried to mandate off week only. UNION stomped that idea and now back to (NT) +1/-0
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| Author:Status quo. That’s how it works
5/28/2021 12:22:19 PM Reply to: 2690492 |
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| Msg ID: 2690527 |
Dude, nothing changed. Theh scheduled IAW CBA (NT) +0/-1
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| Author:You go unless unusual circumstances
5/28/2021 2:08:21 PM Reply to: 2690511 |
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| Msg ID: 2690534 |
Nothing changed thanks to the Union! Company tried to mandate ONLY (NT) +1/-1
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| Author:During off week. Thanks Union!
5/28/2021 2:55:36 PM Reply to: 2690527 |
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| Msg ID: 2690536 |
Dude, nothing chanced at all! Theybhave right to schedule & require +1/-0
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| Author:I be on OFF week because union cba..
5/28/2021 3:14:50 PM Reply to: 2690534 |
... says it SHOULD be on OFF week less it's due to some extreme circumstance, which most if not all are. If a pilot doesn't want to attend on his OFF week, that is NOT a legitimate reason since the CBA says he SHOULD schedule as such. The UNION is pounding its chest for catching the bait it used on the hook it started fishing with. You didn't catch a fish if you put it on the hook yourself. Grandstanding nonsense! That is all it is. And funny it mentions dealing with the very CP the union proudly proclaimed they just caused to be fired! Guess that was nonsense too! |
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| Msg ID: 2690547 |
Dude, nothing chanced at all! Theybhave right to schedule & require +0/-0
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| Author:retired
5/28/2021 4:29:48 PM Reply to: 2690536 |
Here in lies the rub---7on7off--or 14 on 14 off---doesn't really matter. Basically you sign up for about 182 days or 26 weeks to work for your employer---all the rest of the time is yours----So employers need to figure out what they are offering and put all the bean counters to work. It is cheaper to just backfill from within, except you know there are bases you will never go back to.---That is on them.----rant over!! |
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| Msg ID: 2690560 |
I think you have some misconceptions! +0/-0
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| Author:CBA does not support your "rub"
5/28/2021 7:13:50 PM Reply to: 2690547 |
The problem in your "rant" is that you don't have a--7on7off--or 14on14off promise in your contract! You have a schedule built around a day on for each day off premise FOR SCHEDULED WORKSHIFTS, which are defined, specifically as: Work Shift: The Pilot’s salary is based upon 182 ½ work shifts per year. A “work shift” is defined as a minimum of 12 and up to a fourteen (14) hours of duration. A “work shift” does not include training, meetings and travel to or from training or meetings on an off work day. You are not scheduled for a shift when you go to training. Your "salary" is based on the annual promised amount for performing 182.5 "workshift" of 12 to 14 hours. That's why you get workover pay for workover shifts you perform, and overtime pay at workover rates for anything and everything you do outside of those owed shift. You are not promised a 1 for 1 schedule to include your training, or meetings, or ferries, or whatever. So, unfortunately for you, your CBA already defines and is the direct cause of your hurt feelings and rant. Article 6 and 7 explaining it pretty clearly, and Appendix A Section 7 provides you the important contractual definitions. You owe the company 185.5 WORKSHIFTS, not days! |
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| Msg ID: 2690567 |
Thats NOT what the CBA says. Pilot must “agree” to dates (NT) +0/-0
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| Author:Pilots “self” schedule
5/28/2021 9:26:31 PM Reply to: 2690536 |
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| Msg ID: 2690569 |
Again, CBA says they schedule, and pilot SHOULD go on OFF week (NT) +0/-0
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| Author:unless there is a LEGITIMATE reason
5/28/2021 9:35:08 PM Reply to: 2690567 |
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| Msg ID: 2690570 |
Don't agree, don't get recurrent, don't get paid (NT) +0/-0
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| Author:Anonymous
5/28/2021 9:42:34 PM Reply to: 2690567 |
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| Msg ID: 2690571 |
Self schedule, with requirement it SHOULD be on OFF week (NT) +0/-0
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| Author:with plenty of time to meet that mandate
5/28/2021 9:49:34 PM Reply to: 2690567 |
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| Msg ID: 2690584 |
Self schedule, with requirement it SHOULD be on OFF week +0/-0
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| Author:What a bunch
5/29/2021 9:07:19 AM Reply to: 2690571 |
Of whiners. Once a year you have to travel for training. I know when I hired on they told me that I would normally attend training on my week off. Its part of the job,not an unreasonable request and it helps keep my base in service. Its not all about you!. |
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| Msg ID: 2690587 |
It same in the airlines (for you RTG'ers) Airline TNG Dept schedules +0/-0
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| Author:you go regardless of your schedule!
5/29/2021 9:53:05 AM Reply to: 2690584 |
The airline schedules you for training. You bid your schedule accordingly, and hopefully you get awarded a schedule that suits your desires. 8f you have enough seniority to hold a line that gets you what you want, great. If not, too bad. But, airline does the recurrent schedule, not the pilot! |
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| Msg ID: 2690588 |
Did you know... +1/-0
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| Author:The G Mail Guy
5/29/2021 10:45:36 AM Reply to: 2690587 |
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| Msg ID: 2690589 |
... so why didn't you use it yourself? (NT) +0/-0
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| Author:Anonymous
5/29/2021 10:48:25 AM Reply to: 2690588 |
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