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Msg ID: 2669266 109 Crash Landing @ LA Pad (redux) +2/-0     
Author:Been around a while
11/15/2020 6:05:43 PM

Pilots seem to love to make dogmatic statements about cause of every crash before any investigation has even taken place. Speculate if you must to educate yourself and other, but please no dogma.

Watch the vid again (start @ 20 sec to see spinning). Speculate if you like.  But there is no way you can dogmatically say anything other than it appears to be a T/R issue.  PERIOD

The issue could be 1) Mechanical Failure 2) Reported wind direction and velocity exceeded Limits 3) Pilot error applied insufficient or incorrect pedal. 


Msg ID: 2669273 109 Crash Landing @ LA Pad (redux) +0/-1     
Author:Karma ran over dogma guy
11/15/2020 6:52:01 PM

Reply to: 2669266

Agreed on an anti torque issue. But let me pragmatically ask this; can you speculate on the chances or odds of the tail rotor failing at that exact moment of extreme vulnerability? 

Msg ID: 2669274 109 Crash Landing @ LA Pad (redux) +3/-1     
Author:P.T. Moore
11/15/2020 6:57:34 PM

Reply to: 2669273

I have over a 1000 hours in the 109 power and never once had any issues with LTE nor have I heard of anyone else having it. Just saying.

Msg ID: 2669277 109 Crash Landing @ LA Pad (redux) +1/-1     
Author:A109 pilot
11/15/2020 7:04:36 PM

Reply to: 2669274

Currently flying an a109 with around 1600 hours in them as of today....never once have I had the aircraft at a point that would be anywhere near just doesn't happen in the 109...something failed. 

Msg ID: 2669283 109 Crash Landing @ LA Pad (redux) +3/-1     
Author:just because it's
11/15/2020 7:56:11 PM

Reply to: 2669277

never happened to you doesn't mean it can never happen. 

You can run out of pedal in any helicopter ever built...LTE, rigging, wind, whatever. 

Not saying thats what happened on the rooftop, just saying it could have happened.

Msg ID: 2669295 109 Crash Landing @ LA Pad (redux) +0/-1     
Author:A109 pilot
11/15/2020 9:14:07 PM

Reply to: 2669283

But lte isn't what happened....

Msg ID: 2669384 OP is management trying to keep a hospital contract. (NT) +1/-1     
Author:Kiss that contract good bye.
11/16/2020 12:13:01 PM

Reply to: 2669295

Msg ID: 2669276 Don't most mechanical failures occur when (NT) +1/-0     
Author: item is near maximum use ??
11/15/2020 7:04:31 PM

Reply to: 2669273

Msg ID: 2669284 No. Applying left pedal will not cause the T/R drive system (NT) +0/-7     
Author:to fail.
11/15/2020 7:57:26 PM

Reply to: 2669276

Msg ID: 2669325 No. Applying left pedal will not cause the T/R drive system +4/-0     
11/16/2020 12:13:38 AM

Reply to: 2669284

I've hit the pedal stop and had to go around more than once... @ 8000 - 10,000' 109SP, but never at hospital altitudes. 

Probably mechanical... but who knows?

Msg ID: 2669383 Their own company mechs said LTE. Iíll go with that as well. (NT) +0/-0     
Author:Mechs love to talk.
11/16/2020 12:10:02 PM

Reply to: 2669266

Msg ID: 2669769 Their own company mechs said LTE. Iíll go with that as well. (NT) +0/-1     
Author:Mechs are stupid
11/18/2020 2:01:15 PM

Reply to: 2669383

Msg ID: 2671163 Their own company mechs said LTE. Iíll go with that as well.  +0/-0     
Author:Walk a few
11/29/2020 6:55:36 PM

Reply to: 2669769

miles in their shoes and you'll discover a thing or two. 

Msg ID: 2669687 109 Crash Landing @ LA Pad (redux) +1/-0     
11/18/2020 1:35:01 AM

Reply to: 2669266

One of two things.  Something fell and blocked the pedals after slowing through ETL, or good old LTE.  The landing was north with all indications of southerly winds.   

Msg ID: 2669804 T/R Fail more than likely +1/-0     
Author:An Army Guy
11/18/2020 6:13:29 PM

Reply to: 2669687

See this AD from just 4 months ago for the T/R:

See this AD from 2016 about the T/R drive shaft:

For the LTE naysayers out there, I know UH-60's have had it at altitude and even CH-54 Skycranes have run into it.  Conditions definitely have to be just right and a pilot being slow to respond will only make it worse, but it's certainly possible in any helicopter.

Msg ID: 2669845 sound of crickets from Leonardo, failure (NT) +0/-0     
Author:unlikely, that leaves?
11/19/2020 12:06:35 AM

Reply to: 2669804