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Msg ID: 2586064 HAA,...why all the openings? +1/-1     
Author:Where are all the tour pilots going?
8/5/2019 1:29:21 PM
So there are tons of HAA openings, a lot of which say, 2,000 hours total, 1,000 turbine. That's your typical tour pilot after what, 2/3 seasons? So what's the hold up, is it the 200 hours night, or the 200 hours instrument? ,...or do tours simply pay better? Plus, if you're not going HAA after tours, where are you going?

Msg ID: 2586068 HAA,...why all the openings? +12/-1     
Author:itís obvious
8/5/2019 1:44:49 PM

Reply to: 2586064

crap money and crap benefits. 

I’d Say it was obvious 

Msg ID: 2586079 HAA,...why all the openings? +2/-0     
Author:Wait for it ......
8/5/2019 2:15:11 PM

Reply to: 2586068


Msg ID: 2586082 HAA,...why all the openings? +0/-0     
8/5/2019 2:24:49 PM

Reply to: 2586079
So then you're saying the pay is worse than tours, so all those pilots are just going to the airlines?

Msg ID: 2586092 HAA,...why all the openings? +18/-3     
Author:The way it works
8/5/2019 3:10:53 PM

Reply to: 2586082

A lot of them do go to HAA right after tours, with very little experience doing any kind of technical flying or exposure severe weather / flying at minimums. Then they’re afraid to fly in anything less than CAVU or, on the other extreme, go way outside of their experience and kill everyone going IIMC. You get what you pay for, but that seems to be too hard for the HAA community to comprehend.

The rest go on to fly utility, offshore, ag, corporate, etc. And once getting experience in one of those areas, tend to stay put because it pays way more than those POS air med corporations. Those that realize what a joke the helicopter industry is, and have the ability to start a new career, are leaving for RTP. Low hour military pilots are also doing RTP because no one will hire them on the civilian side.

Msg ID: 2586180 HAA,...why all the openings? +2/-0     
8/5/2019 11:41:39 PM

Reply to: 2586068

Tired of 56k and 5 days vacation.

Msg ID: 2586523 HAA,...why all the openings? +1/-0     
Author:If management
8/7/2019 2:42:06 PM

Reply to: 2586068

would simply become part of the equation and take reasonable compensation things would be a lot better.

Pilots should have industry standard retirement benefits (not 401k, though that in addition with no matching - look at the major airlines) and a salary not diminished greatly by management who think they deserve the world.

Would make a world of difference.

Msg ID: 2586087 HAA,...why all the openings? +2/-6     
8/5/2019 2:43:06 PM

Reply to: 2586064

You sound.... not intelligent.  

Msg ID: 2586120 HAA,...why all the openings? +6/-1     
8/5/2019 4:52:30 PM

Reply to: 2586064

you'll never win an argument with a med crew and the home office backs up the med crew before a pilot


A recent Johns Hopkins study claims more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors. Other reports claim the numbers to be as high as 440,000.Medical errors are the third-leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer.

Msg ID: 2586122 Dude, who cares? +1/-6     
Author:Easy HAA'er
8/5/2019 5:04:13 PM

Reply to: 2586120

The med stuff is on them, not our concern. The pilot will never get yelled at becuase the patient had a poor outcome.

Msg ID: 2586164 Dude, who cares? +5/-0     
Author:Vien E. Ehrspede
8/5/2019 9:31:20 PM

Reply to: 2586122

You are simply wrong.

We were told in training to fly each flight the same, regardless of patient condition. After getting to the base the med crew would request/demand that pilots hurry up more with more critical patients. If they looked up and didn't see you at redline, you were going to hear about it.

Msg ID: 2586208 Fill in the blank: 2 against 1 is ______ fun +0/-0     
Author:Just a field hand . com
8/6/2019 9:09:00 AM

Reply to: 2586164

When there are two, they will always team up against you.

Msg ID: 2586324 HAA,...why all the openings? +0/-0     
8/6/2019 6:53:55 PM

Reply to: 2586120

us something, doesn't it?

Maybe it's time to subordinate them to the pilot, for real.

Msg ID: 2586163 HAA,...why all the openings? +5/-0     
Author:No respect
8/5/2019 9:17:14 PM

Reply to: 2586064

Pilots bring in the revenue but get no respect. Schedules are changed by the DO in a heartbeat and no advance notice. AMC did it to make life easier for the payroll girl. MTC did it last week for whatever reason. No reason giving, just the way it is. They will lose four pilot in the next six months for that.

You keep dishing out this s*it and the good guys leave. 

Msg ID: 2586165 nobody cares if you leave +0/-2     
8/5/2019 9:37:09 PM

Reply to: 2586163

or if there are unfilled openings. a lot of these bases are just "phony jobs." look up the term, a.k.a. "bullsh * t  jobs," it's a thing nowadays.

bases are put in to provide outlets for money to be invested. the holding companies and parent corporations are awash with money. it has to be invested somewhere. so things get done, for which, there's no real need. it shows the flag, and hey, maybe it pulls a little market share from the competition.

but if there are open shifts, nobody cares, chances are there won't be a call anyway and if there is, well, some folks (not naming names, that would be against the r.o.e., dontcha know) just turn it down "for weather!" ...yeah right.

so, maybe, some of the "good guys" get tired and leave? best thing that ever happened, as far as the company is concerned. he was probably pulling down the big bucks and his replacement--that is, if he gets replaced--is gonna be making 56k and 5 days vacation, as the ubiquitous lad always chimes in on here.

in other words, the company has save a bundle by replacing him.

haa is going to undergo a contraction, all the signs point to it--if from no other cause, it will do so as a result of the coming big recession--oh yeah, we're overdue for one of those recurring events of capitalism and all the signs point to it coming soon, and being a doozy. there was a bubble and a housing bubble, what, you don't think there could be a helicopter bubble?

look, if there really was a pilot shortage or if unfilled slots were a problem for the big money boys, i can assure you, the solution would be in place before the sun went down tomorrow. the fact that it's not just shows you that as far as the big money is concerned, it's no problemo.

now go ahead with your heritage foundation talking points refutation of all of the above. troublesome thing though, what you guys have been conditioned to bray in response just don't never seem to line up with what we see happenin' in front of our eyes at street level. wonder what's up with that??

Msg ID: 2586174 nobody cares if you leave +1/-0     
Author:Another one of your stupid
8/5/2019 10:22:09 PM

Reply to: 2586165


Msg ID: 2586175 nobody cares if you leave +0/-0     
8/5/2019 10:30:33 PM

Reply to: 2586174

you say that a lot. but you never seem to be able to point out exactly what is wrong with what i'm saying. what's up with that?

Msg ID: 2586200 nobody cares if you leave +1/-0     
Author:Itís not worth bothering with.
8/6/2019 7:52:31 AM

Reply to: 2586175

Thats what’s up with that.

Msg ID: 2586206 Simply said, T M I (NT) +0/-0     
Author:get over yourself
8/6/2019 9:06:43 AM

Reply to: 2586200

Msg ID: 2586373 nobody cares if you leave +0/-0     
8/6/2019 9:58:52 PM

Reply to: 2586165

just read it.

Some good points.

HAA contraction is being fed by other things as well, of course it unnecessarily driving huge balance bills just because there is no ambulance available, in many cases, should come back to bite the hospital and doctors who conjured the reasons for using a helicopter in the first place, but no, hospitals and med people are immune.

In my eye this culture has been developed by DC and Wall Street slowly but surely colluding to persitently feed off citizens in an ever increasing way, chipping one dollar at a time per year, year over year.  All the "professions" do it, more and more, all the time, year over year.  It just does not stop.

Only way to take control of our fate is to vote whatever way possible.

Msg ID: 2586196 HAA,...why all the openings? +0/-2     
Author:equal respect you mean
8/6/2019 6:00:36 AM

Reply to: 2586163

the whole team demands respect for bringing in the revenue for the operation, The pilot can be replaced by the ambulance driver, so get over yourself

Msg ID: 2586309 HAA,...why all the openings? +10/-1     
8/6/2019 5:29:38 PM

Reply to: 2586196

'The pilot can be replaced by the ambulance driver, so get over yourself'  That is completely wrong.  I have more than a million accident free miles as a driver.  I can drive in conditions that I wouldn't walk out to the helicopter in and I have done so.  The ground truck, the ambulance can do that, too, but he doesn't have to carefully predict avoiding those conditions and a reasonable response if does encounter them is entirely different than that of an HEMS pilot.  The HEMS pilot who responds in a responsible, professional manner and aborts for weather is putting the job on the line with that decision.  If his decision can be documented as sound, if management doesn't have a prior grudge and if the med crew feels good about the pilot, things will go well.  Otherwise....

HEMS flying isn't terribly challenging until it is, then it's a significant challenge.  In the 35 years of professional flying before I started HEMS, I was never so exposed and on my own as I was in HEMS when things went sideways on a transport leg.  Abort, divert in the GoM?  One was encouraged to 'take a look' with the full knowledge that it might not work out.  Aborts happened everyday, get to a platform or airport and the company or the contract would recover you and/or the helicopter.  A responsible HEMS pilot never gets to 'take a look', he is expected to complete every leg.

My employer at the Part 91 would give me cash and a credit card when I had remote work to do.  I could call the office and expect reasonable support if I had protected my pax and aircraft.

Not so in HEMS- one ad hocs every abort, the company might help arrange a groiund truck for the patient, but the pilot and the aircraft were on their own.  If your relief pilot was close enough to drive out and take over, things might go well.  I've spent solo nights in the aircraft and I've driven out to relieve and been relieved by the duty pilot, pilot  to pilot.

Why all the openings?  The money sucks.  You are working in professional isolation with people who judge your proficiency by your ability to not scare them too often.  And if you do, no matter what, heaven help you.

The Vietnam pilots are retiring.  A fair few of the Vietnam pilots who came to HEMS had thousands of hours instructing, they could narrate ham sandwich milkshake to the med crew and make them feel safe.  Old guys who want a flying job that allows them to be home every night are in short supply. 

A 1500, 2000 hour pilot is an idiot to continue in HEMS.  They won't fly enough to build real expertise or experience, yu barely maintain the stick skills you came with.  A 20 year 1500 hour HEMS hire will only have 4000-4500 hours at the end of the career, almost but not quite a respectable professional total.  And don't get me started on company training, it's a joke and an obvious conflict of interest- they want you back on the line as fast as possible.

Was I in a position to go to an airline as it is now, I would have done so in a skinny minute.  That was my plan, but helicopter time was only briefly acceptable to airlines and I was never interested enough in fixed wing to get a commercial.

HEMS is a job for an old, experienced pilot who has had enough adventure, thank you very much.  There ain't many now nor will there be in the future- when the Silver State bump starts aging out in about ten years...

Msg ID: 2586406 HAA,...why all the openings? +0/-0     
Author:What are you like 70 now?
8/6/2019 11:29:10 PM

Reply to: 2586309
Vietnam guys? Aren't they all gone yet!

Msg ID: 2586444 Bingo- 70. (NT) +0/-0     
8/7/2019 9:48:18 AM

Reply to: 2586406

Msg ID: 2586305 HAA,...why all the openings? +2/-0     
Author:Reason seeker
8/6/2019 4:23:09 PM

Reply to: 2586064

Lots of reasons for this at least at PHI. 1) Natural movement. Leave this job for utility etc, 2) Airlines. Anyone under 40 who doesn't do this is crazy for the long term quality of life. 3) Retirements, 4) Could be the requirments. Many of the tour people don't even come close to having the night requirement and if they do it is probably penciled in. No real off road flying either. All of the companies are in the same situation yet there isn't enough people in the training pipeline to even come close to filling the gap. Meanwhile, lots of OT!!!

Msg ID: 2586957 HAA,...why all the openings? +1/-1     
Author:Mostly due to
8/9/2019 9:41:15 PM

Reply to: 2586064

the military mis-management hangover instilled in the HAA industry during the 80s when military retirees accepted scheittt for pay just to continue flying a helicopter, they morphed to mis-management and everyone called it the new thing in real management.  Woooo hooooo...............we all havin' fun now.  What a brain trust!


Msg ID: 2588635 HAA,...why all the openings? +1/-0     
8/20/2019 5:31:05 PM

Reply to: 2586957

so, I'm going to stay on topic... it's quite easy to see you guys have no idea about the tour industry. When do tours slow? summer, fall, spring or winter? right now the tour pilots are swamped with hours, and are flying like mad.  HAA knows this, these positions are opening up knowing that the contracts that the tour companies have in place (mostly) end in fall.  mass exodus of the canyon will be here soon.  beyond that, tours have been slowing because of the visa tighening by the government.  they lumped vacation visas in with all the others. so no, it takes about a year and half to get 1,000 turbine now. Usually that means once every other year there will be a much larger migration.  that is this year.  I know plenty chomping at the bits to leave.  Tours do NOT pay more then EMS (other then maverick). 5 and 2 flying 55-70 hours a month is the staple in the canyon. Not to mention the season is ending up in alaska. right now resumes are probably on the loose ready to hit the HAA desks. so 7 and 7 probably looks wonderful, 5 days off is industry standard for tours, nothing different there... and suprisingly a pay raise.  it's another step in a long line of jobs... I agree most are used to flying in good weather, and will have to rely in wits and good adm.  but to some HAA is a beast ready to tear the world down, others it's a bright spot on the way home. 

I'm not new here, been flying since 03' and been here on the forums for a long time lurking, and I haven't been on in a long time. it saddens me to see what has happened to this place.  it's all keyboard cowboys complaining about HAA, or this or that.  nothing useful to see here.  I'm actually regretting even puting in the few mintues of effort to have to say this... but here we are