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Msg ID: 2575494 Phoenix Police/Fire  +32/-2     
6/6/2019 10:22:09 PM

Local news just said; 2 days after the incident the 74 year old woman is still in the hospital, black and blue in the face and hands, still nauseous and unable to stand, blood vessels broken in her face.

Nice job there guys.  Glad you were able to jump on tv and tell us all how great you were.

As an ex Phoenix PD officer I'd be ashamed of myself if I had part in such a mistake, and at the very least would expect a stand-down with serious remedial training, if not worse.

But you guys don't live in the 'real' aviation world.  In the real world anyone responsible for that travesty would be fired, at minimum!

Msg ID: 2575495 Phoenix Police/Fire  +2/-20     
Author:@ not impressed
6/6/2019 10:31:04 PM

Reply to: 2575494

You are no ex phoenix officer or you wouldn't be running you ill-informed mouth, unless you were fired from the PPD.

Msg ID: 2575503 Phoenix Police/Fire  +21/-0     
6/6/2019 10:55:29 PM

Reply to: 2575495

You are wrong twice, and you're a crappy speller.

I used to be 100% pro police, but after seeing cops get away with stuff today that I would still be in jail for if I had done the same thing, I am a little more critial today.

I believe Phx PD is still one of the best departments in the country, and generally I have great respect for them, but they're not perfect and these azzhats screwed up and then tried to cover up.  They should be ashamed of themselves.

Msg ID: 2575506 Phoenix Police/Fire  +2/-2     
Author:@ not impressed
6/6/2019 11:13:53 PM

Reply to: 2575503

Where are the spelling errors genius?

Msg ID: 2575510 Phoenix Police/Fire  +3/-0     
Author:mama still loves you
6/6/2019 11:54:18 PM

Reply to: 2575506
Don't worry about it, big guy. The important thing is that you are a badass on the internet.

Msg ID: 2575515 Did you hear about  +18/-0     
Author:Another Old Guy
6/7/2019 1:36:20 AM

Reply to: 2575513

It was pretty obvious that those guys didn't have a clue in that "rescue" I hope that lady gets  good representation and that agency should be grounded. It wasn't just the pilot, the whole crew should be held accountable. what amazed me was that supervisors allowed the pilot to be interviewed on TV. 

Another Old Guy


Msg ID: 2575516 No, what are you talking about? (NT) +1/-1     
6/7/2019 2:19:46 AM

Reply to: 2575498

Msg ID: 2575521 Phoenix Police/Fire  +17/-0     
Author:Total clown show
6/7/2019 6:47:50 AM

Reply to: 2575494

What self respecting pilot would go on tv to interview after that kind of f-up?

Msg ID: 2575535 Phoenix Police/Fire  +2/-0     
Author:Who am I and why am I here?
6/7/2019 9:29:44 AM

Reply to: 2575494

Years ago, I was told "Its not good to hate."

Things looked bad in the video, I expect mistakes were made and corrections will follow.  I would like to see the interviews mentioned in the posts above; where might they be found?

Msg ID: 2575564 Phoenix Police/Fire  +1/-0     
Author:Better Video
6/7/2019 2:42:15 PM

Reply to: 2575494

They did have a tagline attached. It disconnected somehow.



Msg ID: 2575566 Phoenix Police/Fire  +2/-0     
Author:try this link
6/7/2019 2:45:39 PM

Reply to: 2575564

Msg ID: 2575572 Phoenix Police/Fire  +4/-0     
Author:They should have just landed.
6/7/2019 3:11:01 PM

Reply to: 2575566

It would have been much safer. They must have just wanted to play with hoist. I'm surprised the woman even survived.

Msg ID: 2575580 Phoenix Police/Fire  +2/-0     
Author:Circus Monkey
6/7/2019 4:30:29 PM

Reply to: 2575572

Or just set the litter on the ground to stop the spinning what a bunch of maroons! Jeez

Msg ID: 2575585 According to you... +3/-0     
6/7/2019 4:48:33 PM

Reply to: 2575566

Ok, I'll give you they started with a tag line attached.

After blowing the video up and replaying in slow motion, you can see what appears to be a tag line, attached to apparently, the CENTER of the basket?

Who here thinks attaching a tag line to the center of the basket is going to keep it from spinning, please raise your hands.

I didn't think so, Thank You.

Msg ID: 2575581 According to you.. +2/-0     
6/7/2019 4:41:34 PM

Reply to: 2575564

They appearently had a tag line attached.  The video doesn't prove this, however it does appear that the tech on the ground might be holding on to something, for about 2 seconds.

But, here's the problem.  You do not secure the tag line from directly below.  That will in no way prevent rotation of the litter.  You have to be off to the side, holding slight pressure.  The further off to the side, the more controly you'll have.

PHX PD screwed the pooch over and over on this rescue.  Also, contrary to what I read some of the crew said, the littler DID NOT stop spinning right after they begain foward flight.  Lies after lies from Phoenix PD/Fire.

Just stop and own up guys.

Msg ID: 2575602 Phoenix Police/Fire  +2/-0     
Author:RJ MacReady
6/7/2019 6:21:41 PM

Reply to: 2575494

This falls on the supervisor/command staff in charge of the ASU. There must be a contingency for tag-line failure. On the video, it appears the crew was unsure what to do. This indicates a need for additional training with an organization or company that performs hoist rescues. 

Msg ID: 2575663 Phoenix Police/Fire  +2/-2     
Author:Command staff???
6/7/2019 10:41:25 PM

Reply to: 2575602

 No sir! The fault lays with the pilot, first for not seeing the hoist man was in trouble and pilot needed to change the flight configuration and second the hoist man. A swivel at the lift point can fix most spin problems but idiots are afraid to use them.

 Some commander dwibe back at a desk can’t fix idiots in the aircraft out on the scene.

Seems so simple to us real long liners, if rotor wash is causing load oscillations; change the rotor wash effect. Move up, down, sideways, back, forward anything to get the wash off the load. 


Msg ID: 2575700 Phoenix Police/Fire  +1/-0     
6/8/2019 10:43:58 AM

Reply to: 2575663

It's the pilots fault the ground crew did not attach the line to one end of the litter in order to maintain control?  It's the pilots fault the hoist operator stopped reeling in the litter when rotation wasn't enough to get airborne?  With that presumption of guilt, I take it you sat in on the brief and heard all communications between ground personnel and aircraft.  I agree if there was an available landing area within a couple hundred yards, a simpler and safer manual transfer would have been more prudent.  Probably would have reduced fuel use due to no need for excessive flight/hovering waiting for ground crew to prepare.  They as a crew screwed it up.  If the pilot is/was in charge of training or specifically told personel to do something out of SOP, well then that's another story.

Msg ID: 2575751 Phoenix Police/Fire  +1/-0     
6/8/2019 5:00:40 PM

Reply to: 2575700

not blaming the self loading baggage are you? 

Msg ID: 2575758 Phoenix Police/Fire  +3/-0     
Author:Another Old Guy
6/8/2019 6:07:03 PM

Reply to: 2575751

Here's my additional two cents on this fiasco. I'm retired from a similar agency and believe that as the previous poster said, they probably should have simply landed and carried the injured person to the aircraft. Here's what probably happened... After training togather and merging into a "team" the crew then seeks out opportunities to perform that particular skill. They seek the feeling of shared accomplisment that a good hoist rescue provides. I do admit that I have felt that "need" in my former working life. The decision as to how to proceed is one that should ALWAYS be driven by what is best for the victim, not the course of action that will provide the best ego boost to the team on the aircraft.

Obviously, I can only guess their motivation, however I feel that beyond receiving proper training, crews called upon to provide these kinds of service need to examine their motivation before engaging in any course of operation.

Another Old Guy

Msg ID: 2575822 Phoenix Police/Fire  +1/-0     
Author:Yep, but...
6/9/2019 7:08:58 AM

Reply to: 2575758

Pearls before swine.

Msg ID: 2575821 Phoenix Police/Fire  +1/-0     
Author:Just me
6/9/2019 7:07:14 AM

Reply to: 2575751

The crew on a rescue helicopte has responsibilities that go beyond just getting in.

Msg ID: 2575871 Phoenix Police/Fire  +1/-0     
Author:I agree
6/9/2019 12:10:06 PM

Reply to: 2575821

I think the entire crew is responsible. They are also responsible for on going learning, education and recurrency. That includes reaching out to others in the industry. 

But it is common for the pilots on this forum to devalue the opinion of anyone other than themselves. Passengers, crew, med crew etc are just supposed to get in and keep their mouth shut. Cant have it both ways but most of them that type the loudest have never probably been part of crewed aircraft.

Msg ID: 2576021 Phoenix Police/Fire  +1/-0     
Author:Big M
6/10/2019 2:42:25 PM

Reply to: 2575494

When pigs fly