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Msg ID: 2575417 Breaking News: Uber to offer Helicopter Flights +1/-0     
Author:(here we go again)
6/6/2019 1:53:00 PM



Msg ID: 2575418 Breaking News: Uber to offer Helicopter Flights +2/-0     
Author:yea, right
6/6/2019 2:09:07 PM

Reply to: 2575417

good luck with two pieces of luggage and carry on's...



Msg ID: 2575423 "Hello, welcome to Uber Copters" Yeah, hi, can I (NT) +1/-1     
Author:see your air carrier certificate please
6/6/2019 2:34:24 PM

Reply to: 2575417

Msg ID: 2575469 "Hello, welcome to Uber Copters" Yeah, hi, can I +1/-0     
Author:And they will show it to you.
6/6/2019 8:00:51 PM

Reply to: 2575423

Are you stupid 

Msg ID: 2575534 As long as it says "Uber Copters" on certificate, (NT) +1/-0     
Author:I'm good.
6/7/2019 9:25:48 AM

Reply to: 2575469

Msg ID: 2575540 As long as it says "Uber Copters" on certificate, +1/-0     
Author:Why would that matter.
6/7/2019 10:08:22 AM

Reply to: 2575534

You don't understand what a charter is. BTW, Uber doesn't own any cars, either. lol

Msg ID: 2575556 I matters a whole bunch! Sure I understand how +1/-0     
Author:charters work. They work just like...
6/7/2019 1:17:51 PM

Reply to: 2575540

... OPSPEC A008 and FAR 213.5 says it works:



c.  The certificate holder may not engage in any of the following practices:

(2)  Use a doing business as (DBA) name in any way that represents an entity that does not hold an Air Carrier or Operating Certificate and operations specifications as having such a certificate and operations specifications.

d.  Elements of Operational Control. The following items are essential elements of operational control and are required to be components of the operational control system, used by the certificate holder, and as described or referenced in subparagraph a above:

(4)  Use of Other Business Name(s) (DBA).

(a)  The certificate holder may not allow or create the circumstances that would enable any other entity to conduct a flight for compensation or hire under Part 119121, or 135 as if that entity were the certificate holder.

(b)  The certificate holder must not operate an aircraft under Part 135 under the legal name or fictitious name of any other person or entity, unless authorized in operations specification A001. Such authorization does not authorize any person or entity, other than the certificate holder, to conduct operations under the certificate holder’s certificate and operations specifications.

(c)  The certificate holder may not allow the use of a fictitious name to obscure the certificate holder’s responsibility and accountability to exercise operational control over its flight operations.

§215.3   Use of name.

In holding out to the public and in performing air transportation services, a direct air carrier or foreign direct air carrier subject to this part shall use only the name in which its operating authorization is issued or trade name is registered, and shall not operate or hold out to the public in a name not acknowledged by the Department to be so registered. Minor variations in the use of this name, including abbreviations, contractions, initial letters, or other variations of the name that are identifiable with the authorized name, are permitted. Slogans and service marks shall not be considered names for the purpose of this part, and their use is not restricted.

Msg ID: 2575573 I matters a whole bunch! Sure I understand how +1/-0     
Author:No, it doesn't.
6/7/2019 3:22:23 PM

Reply to: 2575556

If it did, you would be right. Since it doesn't and only matters to you, you are wrong. Case closed.

Msg ID: 2575574 I matters a whole bunch! Sure I understand how +1/-0     
Author:not a 215 issue
6/7/2019 3:29:21 PM

Reply to: 2575556

Uber can operate this as a Part 380 Public Charter broker.


Msg ID: 2575579 IF there name is on the FAA certificate! (NT) +1/-0     
6/7/2019 4:14:09 PM

Reply to: 2575574

Msg ID: 2575736 IF there name is on the FAA certificate! +1/-0     
6/8/2019 2:34:16 PM

Reply to: 2575579

so what you're saying is that you don't know how public charters work

Msg ID: 2575865 no, what I'm saying is YOU don't know how (NT) +1/-0     
Author:they work!
6/9/2019 11:23:17 AM

Reply to: 2575736

Msg ID: 2575582 215 would apply to the helicopter operator flying +1/-0     
Author:the patsy's around. They cannot ....
6/7/2019 4:41:49 PM

Reply to: 2575574

...  hold out as "Uber Copter", particularly if "Uber Copter" is claiming to be a Part 380 Charter indirect carrier!


Also, 380.25(a) demands Uber get a license from the FAA before it "charters" with the direct carrier.


Not sure how an 'on demand' indirect charter operator is going to explain how he is a legitimate public charter outfit, since public charter outfits contract for flights up front, and pay the direct operator for them regardless if it flies.   Sounds to me like this is a company holding out for air taxi services who doesn't have an air taxi certificate from the FAA/DOT

Msg ID: 2575688 By all means, call the NYC FSDO and let them know +1/-0     
Author:how wrong the FAA is.
6/8/2019 8:34:25 AM

Reply to: 2575582

Please record the call and post it here.

Msg ID: 2575692 NYC FSDO has nothing to say about it (NT) +1/-0     
Author:FARs are FARs
6/8/2019 9:33:42 AM

Reply to: 2575688

Msg ID: 2575696 FSDO not wrong when ensuring Uber is not holding +1/-0     
Author:out as a helicopter company and....
6/8/2019 10:15:07 AM

Reply to: 2575688

... the air carrier's OPSPECs are properly designated that any DBA is listed and vetted by the U.S. DOT (under a permit to act as a Public Charter company)

Msg ID: 2575737 I matters a whole bunch! Sure I understand how +2/-0     
6/8/2019 2:41:45 PM

Reply to: 2575556

Alternate to a Part 380 operation, Uber can simply act as the Air Carrier's booking agent.

Passengers would book though the Uber ap, on an flight conducted by ABC Helicopters Inc.

As long as the Uber ap clearly states that Uber is not the air carrier, and clearly states who the air carrier is.


Travelocity is not an air carrier, but I can book flights through them.  They are a broker.

Same Same.

Msg ID: 2575762 Um, Travelocity is not holding out as  +1/-0     
Author:"Welcome to Travelocity Plane"
6/8/2019 6:14:13 PM

Reply to: 2575737

Travelocity is not selling seats on an "on demand" proposition either!   As in, "call us, and we will send one of our airplanes to take you where you want to go".   They are simply helping to sell a seat on an airline, not dictating the price of that seat, or terms of use for that seat, or marketing that seat as a Travelocity seat.   That is the difference.   The flight will occur anyway, without Travelocity.


"Uber Copter" is holding out as it's own brand, marketing the trip under its own business name, and dictating the terms (baggage, number of passengers, WHERE the flight goes, etc, etc, etc.)


Thus, "Uber Copter" is not even close to being what Travelocity (or any other 3rd party ticket seller) is.   Here, they will be holding out a flying service in its own right!


Different, way different!

Msg ID: 2575769 Um, Travelocity is not holding out as  +1/-0     
6/8/2019 6:43:48 PM

Reply to: 2575762

Ok, so we are back to Part 380 Public Charter then.

Just like Jetsmarter does.

Msg ID: 2575830 OK so we're back to not using Uber Copters (NT) +1/-0     
Author:as a DBA then!
6/9/2019 8:46:53 AM

Reply to: 2575769

Msg ID: 2575872 OK so we're back to not using Uber Copters +1/-0     
Author:why not
6/9/2019 12:11:10 PM

Reply to: 2575830

UberCopters can be the name of the Part 380 entity, which would have contracts with direct air carriers.


FBI investigating Jetsmarter financial records and claims of drugs being carried has nothing to do with this discussion.  Your red herring attempt failed.

Msg ID: 2575906 Yup! Once the FAA approves it all & gives permit (NT) +1/-0     
Author:to do so, and OPSPECs with DBA in it
6/9/2019 5:16:13 PM

Reply to: 2575872

Msg ID: 2575770 Um, Travelocity is not holding out as  +1/-0     
6/8/2019 6:44:53 PM

Reply to: 2575762

Ok, so we are back to Part 380 Public Charter then.

Just like Jetsmarter does.

Msg ID: 2575859 OH, you mean this JetSmarter?? +1/-0     
6/9/2019 10:58:10 AM

Reply to: 2575770

FBI probably wants to talk with you too now;_ylt=AwrJ6R9bHf1cYR4ADQpXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTByMjB0aG5zBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw--?p=jet+smarter&fr=mcafee&