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Msg ID: 2570963 AMC pay scale. +0/-0     
Author:The something from the lagoon
5/11/2019 8:25:37 AM

After the last new contract, is there a pay scale. Or can you argue for better pay like Metro and Evac.

 

Is AMC hiring people at a higher rate than current pilots I.E. a 3-5 year AMC pilot making the same as as a new hire...



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Msg ID: 2570964 AMC pay scale. +0/-0     
Author:Answers
5/11/2019 8:38:14 AM

Reply to: 2570963

No

No

Yes. 



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Msg ID: 2570967 AMC pay scale. +0/-0     
Author:The bro-ness
5/11/2019 8:45:45 AM

Reply to: 2570964

So new hires can make more money than a current employe. Thats great for retention.

Does AMC rate your total flight experience or just HAA for pay.



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Msg ID: 2570968 AMC pay scale. +1/-0     
Author:you wanted the union, you got it
5/11/2019 8:54:34 AM

Reply to: 2570967

deal with what your negotiators got for you, guaranteed there pay scale goes up every year



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Msg ID: 2570977 AMC pay scale. +2/-1     
Author:Anonymous
5/11/2019 9:45:32 AM

Reply to: 2570968

Their 



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Msg ID: 2571137 AMC pay scale. +0/-0     
Author:Thatís false.
5/12/2019 4:15:16 AM

Reply to: 2570967

Just like EVERY other HAA operator you can be paid for experience. 



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Msg ID: 2570982 AMC pay scale. +0/-1     
Author:Pay
5/11/2019 10:09:12 AM

Reply to: 2570963

i have been with AMC for

4 years and new hires get Paid more than me.  Not much you can do about it but look for another job.  



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Msg ID: 2570989 AMC pay scale. +0/-1     
Author:Holy cow batman
5/11/2019 10:49:24 AM

Reply to: 2570982

Thanks to the union, people who have stayed with AMC have got the shaft.  While new hires reap the reward.



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Msg ID: 2570990 AMC pay scale. +0/-0     
Author:inspectordetector
5/11/2019 10:50:02 AM

Reply to: 2570982

Depends on what you're hired into



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Msg ID: 2570991 AMC pay scale. +0/-0     
Author:Huh???
5/11/2019 10:51:53 AM

Reply to: 2570990

AMC does something other than HAA... long long, fires, movies, etc.

How did I miss this.



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Msg ID: 2571036 AMC pay scale. +0/-0     
Author:Why not post it
5/11/2019 2:54:11 PM

Reply to: 2570991
What's the big secret?


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Msg ID: 2571040 AMC pay scale. +0/-0     
Author:Because..
5/11/2019 3:06:23 PM

Reply to: 2571036

there is no pay scale now.  The union and amc worked to help hurt senio pilots and staff.



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Msg ID: 2571252 AMC pay scale. +2/-0     
Author:On the contrary
5/12/2019 7:35:29 PM

Reply to: 2571040

Actually this contract is the FIRST time it removed the cap for senior pilots at 20 years resulting in a pay freeze for over 20 years. NOW, THANKS TO THE UNION, pilots will continue to get the same pay raise as all other levels of pilots in the company which is the best benefit you can give to reward long term and tenured employees. So, take your lies somewhere else.



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Msg ID: 2571080 AMC pay scale. +0/-0     
Author:Nope, not true.
5/11/2019 8:22:14 PM

Reply to: 2570982

Go at management for a resolution.

IF you are unhappy based on truths that are not equitable you have the advantage. 

DO NOT let them get away with chrappppp like this.  This is in fact how unions come about and exactly one of the reasons AMC wound up with a union back in 2003.  The mind boggles, will the ijits ever learn?



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Msg ID: 2571118 AMC pay scale. +0/-1     
Author:56k and 5 days vacation
5/11/2019 11:08:51 PM

Reply to: 2570963

what an insult



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Msg ID: 2571138 AMC pay scale. (NT) +0/-0     
Author:Buster Alert
5/12/2019 4:16:23 AM

Reply to: 2570963


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Msg ID: 2571141 AMC pay scale. +1/-0     
Author:Hammer buster
5/12/2019 7:29:17 AM

Reply to: 2571138

everytime someone says buster alert, that’s code for “I am lazy and want to profit off the backs of real professional pilot”

you should get paid more if you work harder than the next guy, you should get paid more if you do more work over, and do better during check rides.

unions reward the lowest common denominator, bar none



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Msg ID: 2571159 AMC pay scale. +6/-0     
Author:That's funny.
5/12/2019 10:32:13 AM

Reply to: 2571141

I did better on some bullsh*t 135 ride than you, so I should get paid more. lol What about all the companies that don't pay you any more than the next slob? Or the company that pays the new guy more than you because they need asses in the seat but don't give raises. I'll take the union job every time. You're delusional if you thing "hard work" gets you anything more than an attaboy in 90% of this industry. Unions bring the pay up and attract a better group of applicants. 



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Msg ID: 2571177 AMC pay scale. +0/-0     
Author:inspectordetector
5/12/2019 11:59:36 AM

Reply to: 2571159

Hired on after 5 years at AE into a base postion at the bottom of the payscale. Found myself being apologetic about my time there after seeing the expression on interviewers face. A friend just hired on after some years with a different HAA company into a national positin and is making more than me. THere, no secret.



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Msg ID: 2571200 AMC pay scale. +0/-1     
Author:UnionMan!!!
5/12/2019 1:48:30 PM

Reply to: 2571159

you realize that the union only pays you for the lowest level of work. 

If companies realized that the union only states how low you can pay, not how high.  No better way for a company to get rid of a useless union and useless employees. 

 

To many people are effected by the Dunning-Kruger Effect.



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Msg ID: 2571206 AMC pay scale. +1/-0     
Author:Say wut
5/12/2019 2:19:08 PM

Reply to: 2571200

The union doesn't pay me. My company pays me. My union keeps my company paying me well. And the low end of my pay scale is probably the high end for your non-union company. So ha ha



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Msg ID: 2571333 AMC pay scale. +0/-1     
Author:Fat Head Macgee
5/13/2019 7:15:37 AM

Reply to: 2571206

Say's the slave to the union.  Keep feeding yourself the lie and you just might make it long enough into this business to figure out how wrong you really are.

There are many none union companies that pay much higher in HAA than AMC.  The trick is figuring out which one it is and moving there.  The key word being moving there.....



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Msg ID: 2571488 AMC pay scale. +0/-0     
Author:I make good money
5/13/2019 2:45:14 PM

Reply to: 2571333

being union. That's a fact. Every job I've ever had paid more when I was union. No, there are very few companies out there that pay more than a union job. And the ones that do? You can thank high union wages for bringing the pay up. 



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Msg ID: 2571228 Checkrides are PASS/FAIL, there isn't any (NT) +0/-0     
Author:grading system.
5/12/2019 6:12:45 PM

Reply to: 2571159


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Msg ID: 2571310 There isn't any grading system 135 +0/-0     
Author:Petey Punkin
5/13/2019 5:25:35 AM

Reply to: 2571228

But there is for certificates.  You can take a Type ride and be graded at the ATP, Commercial, or Private level.



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Msg ID: 2571429 Um, have you ever taken a checkride, like ever? +0/-0     
Author:Anonymous
5/13/2019 12:14:36 PM

Reply to: 2571310

You apply for an ATP.   You either pass or fail it

You apply for a Commercial.   You either pass or fail it.

You apply for a Private.  You either pass or fail it.

 

You don't apply for an ATP and end up with a Private if you're grades are low.

Vice versa!



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Msg ID: 2571332 Checkrides are PASS/FAIL, there isn't any  +0/-0     
Author:WizKid
5/13/2019 7:12:38 AM

Reply to: 2571228

I guess you have not looked at the sheet they grade. There are three different levels they can put.

 

Check next time, super smart guy



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Msg ID: 2571434 Your right.... S / U / NA +0/-0     
Author:Anonymous
5/13/2019 12:24:17 PM

Reply to: 2571332

 

S = Satisfactory

U = Unsatisfactory

N/A = Not applicable

 

 

 



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Msg ID: 2571203 AMC pay scale. +1/-0     
Author:No pay limits at AMC thanks to union
5/12/2019 2:15:03 PM

Reply to: 2570963

Union intentionally kept stipends out of the contract to ensure pilots who deserve more could get it through stipends and other offsets. You don’t have one? Guess you just weren’t a good negotiator or good enough. I’ve got a $15k annual in top of my 5 years credit when I hired in.....so you are right; you get what YOU deserve.



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Msg ID: 2571329 AMC pay scale. +0/-1     
Author:Oh Really??
5/13/2019 7:00:30 AM

Reply to: 2571203

Depends on when you were hired and under which contract you were hired under.  Yes under the new contract with no visible pay scale, there might be room to wiggle.

But people who were hired say in the last 5 years are under a different contract, 10 years under different, 15 different and so on.

The guys who paved the way with the unions and the contracts have taken it in the shorts by the union, while the new pilots have reaped the benefits.

#must be great to be a pilot now------Your welcome

What do we get, less pay than the noob



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Msg ID: 2571352 AMC pay scale. +2/-0     
Author:ALL AMC pilots fly under the same
5/13/2019 9:19:14 AM

Reply to: 2571329

contract you whiny snowflake. Stipends have always been outside the contract for this very reason. Go back to your day vfr tours somewhere until you have some experuence to bring to the table and experience of “value”



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Msg ID: 2571490 AMC pay scale. +0/-0     
Author:Anti union logic
5/13/2019 2:55:08 PM

Reply to: 2571352

Why do companies hate unions so much and fight so hard to break them? It's because they care about you so much and they want you to be free from being a slave and will pay you more, if you just let them!

United we bargain, divided we beg.



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Msg ID: 2571852 AMC pay scale. +0/-0     
Author:ECON 101
5/15/2019 9:10:06 AM

Reply to: 2571490

So your saying the same market forces that drive all industry don't apply to the helicopter industry.

That's amazing!

One major problem with this industry is, we have people who have no were else to go.  That means people feel stuck and lose their power to bargain because they're afraid to loose their job.

I.E- We get low pay because of that, Plus we don't move large amounts of people-(see responsibility) vs Airlines.

One thing that is changing that right now is the airline shortage.  We are seeing a slow steady uptake in wages because of market force, not the unions.

What a lot of you are advocating for is government run air programs like General Motors.  The Unions ruined the American car industry by making us less competitive.  Government bails them out, plus now gives them tax payers money to help keep them going.  So as AMC fails because we have bad pilots, bad management, and people wanting money for doing nothing...I guess we will because AMC.gov and all will be well.

Basic ECON shows us that if there is a need it will be filled.  So if they need helicopter pilots and there are none, pay will go up until the market reaches to saturation point.  But because the Unions monkey around with the money not based on market forces we all lose.



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Msg ID: 2571853 AMC pay scale. +0/-0     
Author:Bat Plane Pilot
5/15/2019 9:16:44 AM

Reply to: 2571352

Name calling just about destroys any argument you are trying to make.  Look up logical fallacies, and tone up those arguments.

The contract arguments stems from understanding which contract you were hired under even though we all work under the current contract.

For example two contracts ago the starting salary is different than now, and if a new pilot is hired in now.  There is more of a chance that someone with less HAA experience can get more money than a pilot protected by the all mighty Union under the current contract.  So who is protecting who.  Sorry is the turth hurts, but remember this.  Facts don't care about feeling.

 



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Msg ID: 2571848 AMC pay scale. +1/-0     
Author:Wrong term JOE
5/15/2019 8:54:43 AM

Reply to: 2571203

We are not talking about a stipends.  We are talking about merit based raises and not a base raise every year.

A 3.8% raise for everyone base on nothing is not a raise. By definition it's a cost of living raise.

A Raise is base on merit, work over, ferry flights, mx flights, etc., while being on your days off helping the  company as well as your program stay solvent.

Just like being early on your show time, keeping the aircraft cleaned and well taken care of.

Taking those safe and legal flights that come in late in the shift rather than turf them.

 

You can kid yourself all you want, but the truth is...Some people just work harder than others and they should be appropriately compensated for that work.



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Msg ID: 2571936 AMC pay scale. +0/-0     
Author:The only
5/15/2019 1:00:52 PM

Reply to: 2571848

way I ever saw a pilot "work harder than others" was a couple of them who constantly pushed weather in the extreme.  They were quite successful at it though not without concerning medical crews a fair amount.  Management just  looked the other way, all the time, until their practices hit them squarely in the face.  We're talking 600/1 cross country at night and so on.  These guys had no idea how stupid they were.  Eventually they were told to get with the program and obey the rules.  They then wound up producing the number of flights the rest of us did.

Moral of the story:  Do the job according to the rules and leave the ever burning desire to be the number one producing pilot alone, you've a better chance of living through it all.



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Msg ID: 2571994 AMC pay scale. +1/-0     
Author:Non-Reader
5/15/2019 4:15:01 PM

Reply to: 2571936

First point---Safe and Legal flying- no pushing limits or exceeding them.

We are not talking about people breaking rules that are already in place, we are talking about the lazy pilots who don't help out fellow pilots, and only does whats best for him.

Does not take care of their aircraft, etc.

If things were merit based and performance based, we would have a better system.  Kind of like cell phones-- No one is telling them what to build or how to build except the customer.  They drive better prices and innovation.  The same thing would happen in the helicopter industry.

 

One major point  no one wants to talk about is, you might have to move to get that job.  You might have to change something about your life.  Instead of the individual making that decision, the Union try to force it at the expense of a lot of the pilots.

If companies pay low....Don't work there.

If companies treat people bad....Don't work there

These things will put a company out of business, and better ones will come up run by better people.

 

I.E- MedTrans pays 60K, don't work for that.  Fly tours if it pays better, fly the long line, AG, TV, Charter, etc.

 

BUT DON'T COMPLAIN BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO MAKE A HARD CHOICE!



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Msg ID: 2572238 AMC pay scale. The Facts +0/-0     
Author:AMC'ed
5/16/2019 4:29:18 PM

Reply to: 2571994

Here are the facts regarding the current AMC pilot pay for those hired by the company after January 1, 2018.  It is taken from our current CBA.

Management can offer a new hire any amount within the following range:  $67,016-73,808.  That offer will be based on how bad AMC wants you and how bad you want the job.  If you have no experience in HAA and/or Part 135 world, expect the low end.  If you are coming from PHI (medical) and have years of HAA and are qualified in the airframe you are being hired into, you can negotiate the $73,808.  I did.

In 2020 and 2021 you will receive a pay raise of 3.25% each year for your base pay.

If you have an ATP,  you will get an additional $600 each year, prorated over 12 months.  

There are bases across the nation that have ACCRA differential pay (cost of living in high cost areas)  They range from an additional 10-60% of your base pay.  Those ACCRA bases are generally in the high cost living areas of California, New York, New England, etc.  Don't expect any ACCRA increases for Oklahoma, Mississippi, Texas, etc.  

Hope this answers the OP's question or anyone else thinking of coming to AMC.

 



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Msg ID: 2572398 AMC pay scale. The Facts +0/-0     
Author:There's the problem...
5/17/2019 12:33:16 PM

Reply to: 2572238

That is exactly what I was saying.  A new pilot can make more money than a pilot who was hired right before the last contract was signed.  Thanks Union masters.

Plus what does HAA experience have to with anything....  It's not like its hard flying.  Even in SPIFR environment, we have such high minimums and fuel requirements you not making that hard of a decision.

When someone saws "what's your HAA experience" I would say, what do you mean?  Can I fly straight and level, land in a huge field, not descend more 200ft per min, turn down flights when it is really safe to go.  Sure I can be an HAA pilot....

There a few programs that fly really high locations, extreme environments, or with a GOM that allows you to anything other than very benign flying.

That's one reason pay is so low.  We can't fly helicopters like we should, because there is a shortage of good skilled aviators.  Those pilots who can fly good and make the helicopter do amazing things, are told your unsafe, or a hotdog by people who can't fly as good.  The green eyed monster strikes again.

One last thing, the current CBA hurts AMC pilots that have put in time ahead of new pilot. PERIOD.  If it was merit based, and performance based, a pilot who preform at a higher level(work over, mx flights,ferry flight,etc, while off shift) Would get paid better and the culture would change for the better.  Rather than like public schools, only teaching to the lowest levels.



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