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Msg ID: 2564910 Low Fuel +0/-0     
Author:da hun
4/9/2019 1:27:50 PM

Man this guy was behind the power curve the whole flight...

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-47866662?utm_source=vertical-daily-news-news-from-the-web&utm_campaign=vertical-daily-news&utm_medium=email&utm_term=news-from-the-web&utm_content=V1

 

 

 



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Msg ID: 2564922 Move on, yes, but... +0/-0     
Author:B. Fuddled
4/9/2019 2:08:59 PM

Reply to: 2564913

The nagging question will always be "WHY did the pilot disregard his obviously low fuel state?"  It simply does not make sense.  Flying "into the supplies" is just insane. That's cutting it waaaaaay too close.  And we'll never know his...I can't call it "rationale", but his reasoning as to why he kept flying when he should have already been on the ground.



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Msg ID: 2564938 Nobody +0/-0     
Author:NoMo
4/9/2019 3:24:10 PM

Reply to: 2564931

will ever know.  According to their investigation, the caution and warning systems were all operating.  Perhaps more time spent on systems would have prevented any misunderstanding of how the fuel system operates.  Not speaking bad about the dead, it's too easy to be an arm chair quarterback.



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Msg ID: 2564969 Nobody +2/-0     
Author:System knoledge
4/9/2019 6:26:40 PM

Reply to: 2564938

I don't think it comes down to just system knowledge, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand the meaning of five cautions related to low fuel on board.

It is a mystery why anyone would want to push that kind of limit, flying with low Fuel and especialy at night over congested areas.

To the genius who compares the US to the EU training standards I just want to remind him that similar accidents have happened on the other side of the pond just as well.

Remember the guy who flew the 206 without checking the fuel before launching and then, once relaized he hadn't enough, instead of diverting and refueling he stretched it to the point were it flamed out and, guess what, couldn't perform a decent auto (with a JetRanger in broad daylight) and killed everyone on board?

 



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Msg ID: 2564973 I think that was an astar not 206 (NT) +0/-0     
Author:2011 AMC
4/9/2019 6:55:29 PM

Reply to: 2564969


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Msg ID: 2565209 I think that was an astar not 206 +0/-0     
Author:Nobody
4/10/2019 4:20:20 PM

Reply to: 2564973

Yes, you're probably correct but still doesn't excuse the guy.



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Msg ID: 2564984 Nobody +2/-0     
Author:Can't fix stupid
4/9/2019 8:01:26 PM

Reply to: 2564969

Darwin's theory is proved once in awhile. I know a few who have chased this and as luck would have it,lived. Too bad he killed people though. On that other note about the poster who stated the pilot was a Euro-Trained bozo. He's generalizing pilots skills from Europe as bozos based on what? His first hand experience or hearsay?



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Msg ID: 2564987 Yes you can! Failsafe systems, conservative +0/-0     
Author:regulations, training all fix "stupid"
4/9/2019 8:23:52 PM

Reply to: 2564984

You can't fix "stupid" when you don't do any of those things that actually fix "stupid"



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Msg ID: 2565021 Yes you can! Failsafe systems, conservative +3/-1     
Author:oldNtired
4/9/2019 10:17:52 PM

Reply to: 2564987

Thats why you land within 5 minutes on a 15 minute low fuel light !



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Msg ID: 2565026 It's also why you have a 30 minute fuel reserve (NT) +0/-0     
Author:when only 20 minutes are required
4/9/2019 10:54:19 PM

Reply to: 2565021


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Msg ID: 2565049 Yes you can! Failsafe systems, conservative +0/-0     
Author:NoMo
4/10/2019 8:05:38 AM

Reply to: 2565021

Damn good rule of thumb if it ever gets to that point



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Msg ID: 2565055 Yes you can! Failsafe systems, conservative +0/-0     
Author:Can't fix stupid
4/10/2019 8:51:01 AM

Reply to: 2564987

Seems training is forgotton with some. To not rely on past training is indeed stupid. 



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Msg ID: 2565059 That is the purpose of recurrent training! (NT) +1/-0     
Author:(i.e., retraining)
4/10/2019 8:54:44 AM

Reply to: 2565055


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Msg ID: 2565245 That is the purpose of recurrent training! +0/-0     
Author:Can't fix stupid
4/10/2019 6:24:34 PM

Reply to: 2565059

I stand corrected. ie.retraining not past training......



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Msg ID: 2565148 Low Fuel +0/-0     
Author:Related Question
4/10/2019 12:52:33 PM

Reply to: 2564910
For the civilian-trained pilots out there, when you were completing your inital training, were you taught that a Low-Fuel light was an emergency? I mean this as a sincere question, not like an insult or anything. I've wondered for awhile becsuse my company's policy is such that if a Low Fuel light comes on, you've already messed up big-big by going well below fuel mins, so the question has never come up. But before this, I came from a military background in an airframe which had a regulation requiring it to land at a certain minimum as indicated on the gauge (corresponded with unusable fuel plus appx 25 mins). Our Low Fuel lights generally tripped about 25 minutes before that (at unusable fuel plus appx 45-50 mins). Thus, we were generally headed home as the light came on, but it was by no means treated like an emergency. Three years out of the military, now flying in the real world... still learning. Thanks.


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Msg ID: 2565183 What I was taught +2/-0     
Author:How much do you trust the gauge?
4/10/2019 2:49:58 PM

Reply to: 2565148
Once the low fuel light comes on you should be in the traffic pattern about to land. If not you should go ahead and land. In fact, any fuel system issue should raise a lot of concern immediately. Fuel problems are nothing to mess with.


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Msg ID: 2565192 What I was taught +0/-1     
Author:Cool thank you.
4/10/2019 3:19:19 PM

Reply to: 2565183
Okay... kinda what i thought... different mentality. So, in a way, it almost sounds like you treat a low fuel light very similar to how you would treat a malfunctioning fuel system. That makes sense. Thank you.


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Msg ID: 2565208 Low fuel +2/-0     
Author:Nobody
4/10/2019 4:18:43 PM

Reply to: 2565192

I was taught not to land with a Low Fuel Caution because that is to be considered as an emergency, normaly you should be landing without Cautions/Warnings of any sort.

If that light comes on for any reason you should be prepared to "land as soon as possible", possibly performing a normal landing rather than an autorotaion.



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Msg ID: 2565247 What I was taught +0/-0     
Author:Can't fix stupid
4/10/2019 6:27:13 PM

Reply to: 2565183

Exactly! 



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