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Msg ID: 2553953 Survival Flight Risk Assesment +16/-5     
Author:Unacceptable
2/2/2019 2:52:24 PM

Had our risk assessment been in use for this particular pilot and flight, here is what it would have looked like;


 

Factors that pushed it over;
Less than 1 year at base
less than 200hrs aircraft
night flight
less than 50 hrs NVG
on shift more than 10 hrs.
Med crew on shift more than 12
One med crew less than 1 yr
Flight between 0100-0600
Visibility with-in 2sm minimums
Below 40f
Temp/dew with-in 5
More than 75nm
Other company declined

 



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Msg ID: 2553954 Survival Flight Risk Assesment +0/-2     
Author:Is this where I say
2/2/2019 3:03:35 PM

Reply to: 2553953

Gee Whiz, was it actually accomplished?



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Msg ID: 2553960 I thought it crashed at around 7am? (NT) +0/-1     
Author:What is accurate?
2/2/2019 3:23:35 PM

Reply to: 2553953


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Msg ID: 2553963 I thought it crashed at around 7am? +1/-1     
Author:Unacceptable
2/2/2019 3:43:20 PM

Reply to: 2553960

I check that box if any part of my flight takes place between those hours.



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Msg ID: 2553967 Survival Flight Risk Assesment +0/-2     
Author:Very Simple Answer
2/2/2019 4:05:19 PM

Reply to: 2553953

WHEN NOTHING CHANGES, NOTHING CHANGES!



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Msg ID: 2553972 Survival Flight Risk Assesment +10/-0     
Author:Now they can blame the pilot 100%
2/2/2019 4:22:09 PM

Reply to: 2553953

Now Survival Flight and the Industry can simply blame the pilot. Case closed.



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Msg ID: 2553975 Survival Flight Risk Assesment +4/-0     
Author:chitty bang bang
2/2/2019 4:27:11 PM

Reply to: 2553972

should be 10 points for having a pair of milk duds right there I tell yer



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Msg ID: 2553980 Is that a SF risk assessment form? (NT) +0/-0     
Author:Because I've never seen one!
2/2/2019 4:35:00 PM

Reply to: 2553953


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Msg ID: 2553992 Survival Flight Risk Assesment +9/-2     
Author:hmmmmm
2/2/2019 5:28:16 PM

Reply to: 2553953

Less than 1 year at base
less than 200hrs aircraft
night flight
less than 50 hrs NVG
on shift more than 10 hrs.
Med crew on shift more than 12
One med crew less than 1 yrtook
Flight between 0100-0600          took off after 0600
Visibility with-in 2sm minimums   visibility reported at 10 sm
Below 40f
Temp/dew with-in 5
More than 75nm
Other company declined              no evidence that they knew this

 

What number do you get now? 

Maybe throw in some volcanic activity?



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Msg ID: 2553995 Survival Flight Risk Assesment +1/-0     
Author:Unacceptable
2/2/2019 5:39:14 PM

Reply to: 2553992

Ok so if I take you responses into account, it’s still a decline (4) and would require manager approval to accept. In my company they would never green light this. If it was a (3) then technically the crew can accept but I don’t know of any in my company that actually do. Almost always they only accept a risk of 1 or 2.

So either way, never should have left the ground



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Msg ID: 2554062 so why did their OCC approve it and let her go? (NT) +1/-0     
Author:Anonymous
2/2/2019 10:24:20 PM

Reply to: 2553995


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Msg ID: 2553996 Survival Flight Risk Assesment +0/-0     
Author:So
2/2/2019 5:40:32 PM

Reply to: 2553992

So, you would've taken that flight yourself?



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Msg ID: 2554013 No. I would have wanted to get off on time (NT) +1/-0     
Author:I turn it down for that but use wx
2/2/2019 6:48:25 PM

Reply to: 2553996


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Msg ID: 2554033 Survival Flight Risk Assesment +7/-0     
Author:don't know, wasn't there, and
2/2/2019 7:38:27 PM

Reply to: 2553996

still haven't seen any TAF's for the area.

What I object to is self-righteous a**holes that will seize any opportunity to climb on bodies to promote their agenda....much like the gun-control crowd. 

Those type of people disgust me and I enjoy the opportunity to bring facts into the conversation. 

I don't know what information was available to that girl when she accepted that flight, and neither does anyone else who is posting here.  I think it's sad that three people lost there lives and this bu**sh*t is all anyone seems to care about.



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Msg ID: 2554756 Survival Flight Risk Assesment +0/-0     
Author:Nominal Data
2/7/2019 1:54:43 PM

Reply to: 2554033

There is plenty of "how come" in that list of anomolies for the ADM process...

AND>.if you think competing operations dont know whose flying, whos not and who has a flight turned down...you are easily fooled.

** Hospitals shop us...or at least I experienced that phenominom



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Msg ID: 2553993 Survival Flight Risk Assesment +3/-1     
Author:Dark or light green
2/2/2019 5:31:13 PM

Reply to: 2553953
Be nice if the FAA gave specific values and thresholds to risk assessments. Instead they opted for the make your own sundae bar approach and let your POI stamp it at checkout.


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Msg ID: 2554000 Survival Flight Risk Assesment +5/-1     
Author:Let's
2/2/2019 6:21:04 PM

Reply to: 2553953

just realize the risk in single pilot and engine night HAA at such hours will eventually catch up with quite a few pilots, and there's not a lot that can be done about it.

All the little play-time add-on solutions, risk assessments, call the Ops Center for release, and so on do nothing other than convolute logic and make decisions more complicated and obscure.  

What is needed is far more than anyone is willing to pay.

I suggest the industry start simplifying and reducing the use of helicopters in patient transport.

Nothing else will reduce accidents.  

 

 



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Msg ID: 2554022 Survival Flight Risk Assesment +4/-1     
Author:BigT
2/2/2019 7:18:31 PM

Reply to: 2554000

"I suggest the industry start simplifying and reducing the use of helicopters in patient transport."

Agree.  Aaron Todd stated in an earnings call (I believe it was Q1 2015) the following.  Who would kwow better than he?

"And if you ask me personally, do we need 900 air medical helicopters to serve this country, I'd say probably not, maybe 500, 600 could do well, but it’s an open market, these are – we don’t have certificate of need restrictions."



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Msg ID: 2554040 Survival Flight Risk Assesment +4/-0     
Author:Yarp
2/2/2019 8:01:29 PM

Reply to: 2554022

Hospital business is general is going the other way.  Lots of smaller ones closing, offering fewer services, or just understaffed.  Give them a choice between taking one of the few ground units to service an area out on a trip for 6 hours or having someone else with a helicopter get rid of the patient for them.  Which one are they going to choose?

Over-reliance on helicopters for transports isn’t the problem, it’s a symptom of the much bigger problem with healthcare.



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Msg ID: 2554914 Survival Flight Risk Assesment +0/-0     
Author:Agree
2/8/2019 6:53:51 PM

Reply to: 2554040

There is also an over reliance on pharmaceuticals and a lack of common sense throughout, 



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Msg ID: 2554025 Survival Flight Risk Assesment +1/-1     
Author:agreed
2/2/2019 7:22:03 PM

Reply to: 2554000

I pretty much agree, especially with the part about the solution being more than most are willing to pay.

 

There is no silver bullet, but the risk assessment is and always will be a band aid, eye wash, lip stains i on a pig, whatever you want to call it.



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Msg ID: 2554027 Survival Flight Risk Assesment +1/-1     
Author:Auto correct failure
2/2/2019 7:24:03 PM

Reply to: 2554025

lip stick on a pig 



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Msg ID: 2554050 Survival Flight Risk Assesment +2/-0     
Author:really?
2/2/2019 9:06:19 PM

Reply to: 2554027

The med crew at base less than one year and on duty more than 12 hrs?  Really? How does that have any affect on the flight?  So half of every shift the med crew count as a negtive for the flight?



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Msg ID: 2554082 Survival Flight Risk Assesment +1/-2     
Author:Hubris always bites back
2/3/2019 12:47:44 AM

Reply to: 2554050

The hubris, overconfidence, and arrogance of so many pilots are what gets people killed. Discounting med crew input, failing to utilize CRM, and subscribing to the brainwashed military mindset mentality is deadly.  Consider this, the fact that another agency turned down this flight may be the root cause.



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Msg ID: 2554060 Below 40F? Vis within 2 of mins? btwn 1-6? (NT) +0/-0     
Author:None of that were factors on this flt!
2/2/2019 10:17:55 PM

Reply to: 2553953


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Msg ID: 2554072 Below 40F? Vis within 2 of mins? btwn 1-6? +2/-0     
Author:Unacceptable
2/2/2019 11:11:34 PM

Reply to: 2554060

It was below 40 degrees. I updated the information to reflect the correct time and visibility. Still got a 4 which is a decline/no go anyway.

so that doesn’t make a difference.



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Msg ID: 2554077 oh, I thought you were saying it was -40f (NT) +0/-1     
Author:Anonymous
2/2/2019 11:45:47 PM

Reply to: 2554072


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Msg ID: 2554158 Below 40F? Vis within 2 of mins? btwn 1-6? +0/-0     
Author:yeah,
2/3/2019 2:58:20 PM

Reply to: 2554072

I got caught in a lie, but it doesn't matter. 

It's for the children.



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Msg ID: 2554223 Below 40F? Vis within 2 of mins? btwn 1-6? +0/-0     
Author:Unacceptable
2/4/2019 12:46:36 AM

Reply to: 2554158

Negative. No lie here. Just looked at wrong METARS. When updated with correct weather it didn’t matter because the result was still a decline.



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Msg ID: 2554207 Then why did the company approve her taking (NT) +0/-0     
Author:the flight? FAR 135.619(a)(4)
2/3/2019 9:10:55 PM

Reply to: 2554072


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Msg ID: 2554089 Survival Flight Risk Assesment +2/-0     
Author:Well I know you’re not AMC
2/3/2019 2:14:34 AM

Reply to: 2553953

a bunch of those aren’t on amc assessments and at quick glance it would maybe meeet medium risk at amc.  Yes I agree  amcs RA is a joke anyway.



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Msg ID: 2554103 Survival Flight Risk Assesment (NT) +0/-0     
Author:That's Interesting...
2/3/2019 8:30:46 AM

Reply to: 2553953


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Msg ID: 2554284 Survival Flight: So my next question would be; +0/-0     
Author:are they going to change the name
2/4/2019 11:40:42 AM

Reply to: 2553953

of the rpogram now?



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Msg ID: 2554321 Survival Flight: So my next question would be; +0/-1     
Author:Oh, wait
2/4/2019 2:43:31 PM

Reply to: 2554284

the patient (presumably) survived, cuz they hadn't picked him/her up yet.



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Msg ID: 2554370 I thought Survival Flight had blue helicopters (NT) +0/-0     
Author:Anonymous
2/4/2019 10:09:09 PM

Reply to: 2553953


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