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Msg ID: 2553952 Helicopter Shopping +0/-0     
2/2/2019 2:46:47 PM

And so the cycle repeats itself...


Msg ID: 2553955 Helicopter Shopping +1/-0     
Author:Just another advertising ploy
2/2/2019 3:05:40 PM

Reply to: 2553952

Call us, and if we won't go, don't call anyone else! Just call us; all the time, every time.

Msg ID: 2553991 Helicopter Shopping +5/-0     
2/2/2019 5:26:03 PM

Reply to: 2553952

blame the hospital for the decision to fly 

what happens when the hospital calls the accident program first?

cant have both ways. 

How many times have I heard pilots tell the hospital staff to just call. We will assess the weather. 

Msg ID: 2554053 Helicopter Shopping +5/-1     
Author:XHEMS (HAA)
2/2/2019 9:27:34 PM

Reply to: 2553991

I once turned a flight for WX.  We were a mountainous area base.  It was night, the WX at our location was iffy at best but fine at the receiving hospital.  The real problem was not knowing what WX was like between us and there, about a 1.3 hr flight.  I did mention it was night, right?  BTW, we did have NVGs, but that really doesn't matter and could have actually been a false sense of security.  A few minutes after declining the flight the ER doc calls, tells me he is a "airplane" pilot and thinks the WX is OK; then demands we take the flight.  I told him the issue wasn't WX here or there, but what was in between, and we had no way of knowing.  Again, I did mention it was night in the mountains, right?  Well, that isn't good enough and he demands I go to the ER and see him.  I said I'd be happy to if that would please him, but it wasn't going to change our decision.  He got irrate and started yelling at me over the phone.  He again said he was an "airplane" pilot (I found out later SEL PP, so BFD!) and again "demand"(ed) (his word) I take the flight.  I'd finally had enough, I said "I'll tell you what doc, your a "pilot," I'll start the thing and you can fly it!"  He hung up. 15 minutes later I got a call from the Area Mgr who was also "irrate" and never listened to my side of the story.  I ended up getting written up for being rude to the doc.  I didn't really care because I did the right thing and the AM was a tool.  Such is life..... 

Who do we blame for that one?

Msg ID: 2554032 Helicopter Shopping +10/-0     
Author:too many crying wolf
2/2/2019 7:34:16 PM

Reply to: 2553952

The problem is so many out there are turning down flights for “weather” when it is perfectly safe to fly. As long as operators are using weather as an excuse to mask manning shortages, OOS aircraft, duty time restrictions, etc, there will be helicopter shopping.

Sometimes different operators do have different capabilities based on equipment, training, etc. Comparing a VFR only 206, Astar, or 407 to an IFR base is apples to oranges. Most sending facilities don’t understand that. They just want the patient out of their hospital/ambulance.

Msg ID: 2554051 Helicopter Shopping +1/-0     
Author:100% correct
2/2/2019 9:20:45 PM

Reply to: 2554032

So many people don’t understand this 

Msg ID: 2554065 Helicopter Shopping +1/-1     
Author:I might add,
2/2/2019 10:46:09 PM

Reply to: 2554032

if you turn one down for wx, post it on Weather Turndown.  If you don't, you are part of the problem.

Msg ID: 2554099 Helicopter Shopping +2/-0     
Author:Weather turndown
2/3/2019 8:00:56 AM

Reply to: 2554065

How do you mandate that everyone uses weather turndown. Not that many programs use it and the dispatchers, excuse me I ment the flight followers dont or cant put them in quick enough for the other program s to see. Let the question of did someone else turn this down for weather be asked on every request call  

Msg ID: 2554123 Helicopter Shopping +0/-0     
Author:the requestor may not tell
2/3/2019 10:13:41 AM

Reply to: 2554099

you there was a turndown, remember, they're the ones who are shopping.

Weather Turndown is there so that the programs can share that info. 

The problem is that many programs don't want to share that information, mainly because they don't want to go on record for wx turndowns when they are OOS for other reasons (maint., no crew, shift change, Super Bowl, etc).  Seen it on many occasions.



Msg ID: 2554114 Helicopter Shopping +3/-0     
Author:So weatherw
2/3/2019 9:21:22 AM

Reply to: 2554065

mandate programs stop cancelling for weather when its 5000 and 10 because they dont Have a crew or aircraft is down for maintenance. 

Part of the real problem. 

Msg ID: 2554171 Helicopter Shopping +0/-0     
2/3/2019 4:38:01 PM

Reply to: 2554114

Serious, perhaps naive, question.  Why would pilots, operators, or dispatch/OCC centers claim they are down for weather, when there is some other reason such as mx, staffing, etc.?  What benefit or advantage does this afford them when they do this?  Seriously.

Msg ID: 2554172 Helicopter Shopping +0/-0     
2/3/2019 4:46:05 PM

Reply to: 2554171

makes them look busy vs unable to provide service because of not being able to attract and retain experienced employees

Msg ID: 2554176 Helicopter Shopping +0/-0     
Author:availabilty is a big part of
2/3/2019 5:07:27 PM

Reply to: 2554171

marketing a program.  They don't want the competition telling people to "call us first, those other guys are probably OOS anyway."

Msg ID: 2554219 Helicopter Shopping +4/-0     
Author:Capt Easy
2/3/2019 10:45:29 PM

Reply to: 2554032

More places "cry wolf" regarding weather than people may realize or want to admit.

Re: Weather Turndown from below - I never use it. It won't solve any problems, but it makes some feel good.

Helicopter shopping is not the problem! The REAL problem is pilots making poor decisions.


Msg ID: 2554257 Accountability won't solve problems? (NT) +0/-2     
Author:You're part of the problem.
2/4/2019 9:22:26 AM

Reply to: 2554219

Msg ID: 2554325 Helicopter Shopping +2/-0     
2/4/2019 3:17:58 PM

Reply to: 2554219

True. People can shop all they want, but as a pilot you don’t have to sell them the goods. 

Msg ID: 2554392 Helicopter Shopping +2/-0     
Author:ask enough pilots
2/5/2019 8:16:23 AM

Reply to: 2554325

and sooner or of us will take the flight. You'll either find a cowboy, newbie makin' their bones, or joe oblivious.

Ask enough of us and you'll eventually find one who'll go. Guaranteed.

p.s. in case it isn't clear....that's not good.

Msg ID: 2554387 Helicopter Shopping +3/-0     
2/5/2019 7:41:56 AM

Reply to: 2553952
So what? I make my decision regardless what someone else does. Many factors come into play. I've seen many flights turned down for no good reason other than someone didn't want to fly. I'll consider that you turned it down, but I'll make my own decision.

Msg ID: 2554395 Helicopter Shopping +1/-0     
Author:I, Pilot
2/5/2019 8:39:58 AM

Reply to: 2554387

I've seen many flights turned down for no good reason other than someone didn't want to fly.


...and "weather turn-downs" start to lose credibility.

Msg ID: 2554443 well sometimes they don't have +0/-0     
Author:any credibility
2/5/2019 3:07:18 PM

Reply to: 2554395

deal with it

Msg ID: 2554451 Well, no kidding. +0/-0     
Author:I, Pilot
2/5/2019 4:19:27 PM

Reply to: 2554443

Thank you Captain Obvious.